In this enlightening episode of The Good News with Angie Austin, Angie is joined by Grace Fox to discuss the concept of 'Joyful Disruptions'. Grace shares a profound experience from her travels in Romania that illustrates how unexpected disruptions can lead to powerful spiritual connections and personal growth. Together, they explore how embracing God's unexpected plans can enrich our lives with joy and purpose. Tune in to be inspired by tales of faith, resilience, and the beauty of life's unpredictable journey.
SPEAKER 06 :
welcome to the good news with angie austin now with the good news here's angie hello there friend angie austin and grace fox with the good news we're talking about in the new year joyful disruptions i love that title grace's book that we're speaking of today is fresh hope for today devotions for joy on the journey and um it's so funny joyce that welcome by the way thank you for having me again It's funny because just yesterday I posted on my Facebook something that I'd written several years back and it had to do with stopping to smell the donuts because my post was about, from five years ago, was about how I like to stop at the world's largest ball of twine. And then I had a picture from back then where we stopped at the dinosaur in the parking lot. It was a dinosaur gift shop outside of Palm Springs. And then Randy's Donuts near LAX in Los Angeles that's like a two-story high donut on top of, and I'd never stopped there because when I lived in California, I worked so much like 60 to 80 hours a week that I didn't do all the fun things. So now I like to stop and experience things. So what's funny is that before I even knew you, um, my title, my theme for the year, five years ago was the joy is in the journey. And so your book, Being Fresh Hope for Today, Devotions for Joy on the Journey, I just thought about because yesterday I decided my new theme for the year was the joy is in the journey. And then as I'm interviewing you and starting the interview, I'm like, wait a second. That was what I posted five years ago. I didn't even know you. And then today we're talking about your book, Devotions for Joy on the Journey. I just think God works in funny ways.
SPEAKER 05 :
Yeah, that is so cool. And then today's little discussion that we're going to have is about joyful disruption. So we keep bringing the joy back into it. That's great.
SPEAKER 06 :
And so as we're talking about the new year, you kind of preface this by saying to me, look, we all have a lot of plans for the new year, but be open to God's plans for us. So let's talk about this joyful disruption, devotion, and then what you want us to be, you know, open to this year.
SPEAKER 05 :
Yeah, for sure. So I wrote this little devotion after having an experience in Romania, where my husband and I were going from one destination to another, checking up on some of our missionaries and just making sure that they were doing well. And on the way, when we got to the Romanian border, the train stopped and some police officers came on board with German Shepherd dogs. They were sniffing for drugs and all this. But about four of them gathered at our little berth at the doorway and then just started talking away in Romanian to us. We didn't understand, but they were pointing and talking and finally realized, oh, man, they're asking for our passports. And so they checked mine. It was fine. They checked Gene's. And there was a problem with the stamp when he entered Europe on that one. They failed to put the proper stamp in passport control. And so they pulled us off the train with our suitcases. and took us into the nearest police station where there we were in a room with a little single light bulb hanging down from the roof and being questioned by a woman who spoke very good English. But, boy, they were just really grilling Jean over when he entered and whatnot. They finally took our passports and left the room, and we had no idea really what was going to happen because there was no explanation given for that. It was a little bit scary because people told us, you know, in some countries, Westerners are targets. And so they'd always told us in that particular country, don't give up your passport because they might ask for a bribe in order for you to get it back. Oh, interesting. And they stopped you, especially if you're involved in an accident as a foreigner. They just will regard you as somebody with money. And so they are going to want money before they get your car back or get your passport back or anything like that. And so we thought, oh, man, you know, there's our passports. We didn't really have a choice on giving them up. And and so we didn't know what was going to happen. But in the end, it worked out OK. But in the interim, we were left with a Romanian-speaking officer who wanted to practice his conversational English. And you know what had happened?
SPEAKER 06 :
Wait, what? He just said to you, look, I know they've got your passports, but I would just like to practice my English with you in the interim.
SPEAKER 05 :
Well, this is so funny, because it was a woman that took our passports away. I think she was in a position of authority there, and she just assigned this guy to stay with us in this room. Yeah, and so he just started... kind of trying to talk as best he could in conversational English. But the neatest thing was, was it was Easter time. And so we got into a spiritual conversation on what is Easter? What does it mean? Oh, it means that Jesus died. Well, who's Jesus? You know, there's a lot of religion in some of those countries, but not a lot of people know who Jesus is. Wow. And so we got to explain who Jesus was. And the thing was, my dad had died a couple weeks prior, and I wasn't even able to attend the funeral because I was in Eastern Europe. And so I was able to share with him how my dad died, but that we knew he was with Jesus because he placed his faith in Jesus as a young man. And so we got to explain what that meant. And all of that in, you know, his practicing conversational English. So, yes, it was a real hassle when we got pulled off the train because we missed our connection. You know, it messed up the missionaries that were waiting to meet us at the end. We had to wait for the next train to come and all that. It was a headache. But God had better plans. And we had to be willing to hold our plans in an open hand so he could fulfill better plans. And that's how I think we need to go into the new year. We have all our hopes and dreams in our hands and they might all be good. That's great. But let's hold them in an open hand because God might have better plans yet. And so just hold them in an open hand. And if he disrupts our plans for something better, so be it. Let's just roll with it.
SPEAKER 06 :
Wow. I mean, that is crazy that God used these two people who were involved in ministry, you know, who would evangelize in a very subtle way to a guy that just wanted to speak English, you know, with you. And did you feel that he understood the gist of what you were getting at?
SPEAKER 05 :
We did. It was the best conversation ever. And what was kind of funny was at the end, like we really had a bond. I had a couple of granola bars on me. And we talked about his family. He told us we were able to ask him those questions using basic English. And he answered using basic English, but he told us he had a couple of children. And so I gave him the granola bars and I said, these are for your kids. And he smiled and stuck them in his pocket. And then I said, can I get a picture taken with you? And he kind of looked out the door down the hall to make sure nobody else was coming. And then he handed the camera to my husband and he goes, okay, now, now. And so he took the picture and, And then he disappeared for a moment and came back. He had his, his hand clutched closed and he took my hand, turned my palm up and then he put his clutched hand on top of my palm. And I'm thinking, what's he going to do? What's he going to put into my hand? Cause he could put something contraband in my hand and then, and then look like I'm holding it. And now he's going to want money to, you know, for me to kind of ride my way out of this situation. But, but he opened his hand onto mine and pressed a patch onto my hand. It was one of these fabric patches that you can sew onto a piece of clothing, and it came from the communist days. It was like a little relic from days gone by, and he just said, I just want you to have that. I just want you to take it and remember me.
SPEAKER 06 :
Do you still have it?
SPEAKER 05 :
I do. I do.
SPEAKER 06 :
That is so cool. And so the picture, do you still have the picture too?
SPEAKER 05 :
I do somewhere in a file, but I do have the patch. It's with me on a boat. It made the purge even when we moved onto the sailboat because it was such a special moment to connect with this police officer at that station in Romania. When it was all done, the whole situation was over. They brought our passports back and they realized that it was passport control issue, you know, stamping Dean's passport incorrectly. They apologized for the inconvenience. And then, and then this was so funny. The lady in charge says to this police officer, you take them to the train station and you get them on the next train. So he marched us to the train station. He told us to wait there. Well, he went back until the train arrived. It was about another hour's wait or something. And then he came back when the train pulled into the station, picked up our suitcases. He marched us onto the train, put our suitcase up above on a rack there. And then, you know, when he did, he he put his heels together like a soldier would. And he saluted us right there in the aisle of this train. Everybody else was watching. What in the world is going on with them? And then, you know, made sure that we were seated comfortably and off he went. It was an incredible situation where we just saw God at work. So that patch stayed with me as we moved on to the boat.
SPEAKER 06 :
That is such a cool experience. And like you said, joyful disruptions. Most people would have seen that as like, you know, you see people traveling and losing their marbles and yelling and throwing a fit. And they apologize saying it wasn't your fault. It was when you entered the country and that the stamp was, you know, not correct because, you know, fault on their country's end. not on yours and apologetic, but so many people would have been so harried by the disruption that they wouldn't have taken that opportunity to really enjoy that experience and share their faith. And that's such a great, I love the message for the new year that we have these wonderful plans, maybe for the new year, But they may not completely align with God's plans or there might be a detour or, as you put it, a disruption. And to be open to these detours because they might be wonderful experiences not only for you but the person that God brings into your path.
SPEAKER 05 :
Exactly. We don't know what God has in mind. And so as we enter this new year, I do it with joy. I do it with a sense of anticipation, maybe a little bit of trepidation over things that I have coming up. big tasks that are coming but i i'm just sort of leaving them in the lord's hands but i still need to be open to those disruptions and and we'll call them the divine disruptions because we can look at them irritated like like you were just mentioning a minute ago when the trip is disrupted we just want to wow let's just get on with it but but if god is in the midst of that if he's the one disrupting those plans they are divine and he's got a purpose And to be able to explore those purposes and roll with it. Go along with him on it. Don't fight him. Let's go along with him because he's got something good in mind.
SPEAKER 06 :
You know, I think about when I was taking my son, my daughter, and one of my son's teenage friends, we were going to Las Vegas from Colorado. And we broke down basically like in the middle of nowhere. There wasn't a town within an hour. And we had to wait quite some time for a tow truck. And we were on the side of a very busy highway in a in a ravine kind of like it was like it was I couldn't even imagine a more desolate area in this day and age in the United States where we barely could get cell service. And I had no idea where we were. So we walked down to like a mile marker and then it was starting to rain. And, you know, they wanted me to leave my kids behind in the car when they towed my truck because they might have not have room for my kids. I'm like, no, I have to stay until you can find a tow truck that has room for my kids. I can't leave my kids on the side of the road in the middle of the night. My daughter was like 12. So anyway, I used that whole opportunity because there was no rental car company in the town where we ended up and I was in a hotel and my car ended up being like the engine almost totaled because of some faulty part that had just been put into my car, like an expensive, a timing belt. So like I'd had like a thousand dollar bill, really prepped the car for the trip. And then they had to tow it back to Colorado. It was that damaged. And so to make a long story short, I used it as an opportunity to show the kids how to stay calm in like this really weird situation. We had to actually get, the only thing they had in town was a U-Haul truck rental company. So I had to rent a U-Haul to drive a few hours to a town that had a rental car company that then leave the U-Haul, take the rental car to Las Vegas. And we had to drive back to the U-Haul that was parked at like a little teeny airport in a small town and then switch out the rental car for the U-Haul because we had to bring the U-Haul back to the town where we'd rented that and then get the rest of the way back because my husband had to fly out to help us. Anyway, I just wanted to show the kids like stay calm and under pressure. So it was a good time for me to like teach them how to like not lose my marbles because we had so many things to figure out. Hey, Grace, we're out of time. I appreciate you so much. Happy New Year. GraceFox.com. Thank you, friend.
SPEAKER 05 :
You bet. Happy New Year to you, too.
SPEAKER 03 :
Aspen Park is listening to KLTT, the mighty 670.
SPEAKER 01 :
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SPEAKER 06 :
Hey there, friend. Angie Austin here with the good news, along with one of my favorite guests, Lloyd Lewis. He is the president and CEO of ARK. You've heard me talk a lot about ARK on the program, ARKthrift.com, if you want more info. And Lloyd Lewis is joining us to talk about what's going on with ARK and also a little bit about his book as well. Welcome, Lloyd.
SPEAKER 04 :
Yeah, great to be with you again. Did you say one of your favorites? Did you say one of your favorites? Yeah, like top five. Did you say your favorite? Top five. Top five. Yeah, let's rephrase. Top five. Top three. Top three.
SPEAKER 06 :
Top three. You are so funny. So, Lloyd, I know you and many of your ambassadors well. I met you when your son was born. How old is Kennedy now? Kennedy turned 20 last August. Oh, my goodness. So Kennedy has Down syndrome. And after his birth, because you didn't know much about that whole world, you took a new career path at some point after Kennedy was born. So tell us about that career path and ARC.
SPEAKER 04 :
Yeah, I was in the private sector and I was a financial professional, including as a CFO for a high tech, ultimately sold to Micron before I joined ARC. But when Kennedy was born, I became very involved almost immediately in scientific research advocacy and met a neuroscientist at the University of Colorado. We partnered up and lobbied for additional funding for Down syndrome research, met with the director of the NIH, met with a number of people at CU, et cetera, et cetera. And also met a philanthropist daughter, Michelle C.,
SPEAKER 06 :
Yes.
SPEAKER 04 :
And her family has now created the world's largest Down Syndrome Research Institute named for the neuroscientist I brought into the project. That was my beginning effort to help people like my son. Shortly after that, I got recruited to Arcturus Stores, which is a 55 year old nonprofit whose mission is to fund advocacy for people with developmental disabilities, inclusive Down syndrome, autism, cerebral palsy, and all forms of cognitive deficit. And I'm nearing my 20th year with ARC. Oh, my goodness. We've had a lot of good luck, and we've been able to dramatically increase funding and support and now become the largest employer of people with developmental disabilities in Colorado. So it's been really fun.
SPEAKER 06 :
All right, so largest employer of people with developmental disabilities in Colorado. When you started with AHRQ almost 20 years ago, if I recall correctly, there were about five ambassadors who were differently abled, and now you have how many?
SPEAKER 04 :
Yeah, we had 10 ambassadors who had developmental disabilities working for us in 2005. Today we have nearly 500. They work in all parts of the company and just do amazing work for us and inspire all of us.
SPEAKER 06 :
And we've talked about it before because I have such an affinity for your ambassadors about what it is that people love about them so much and how they add to the camaraderie and the feeling of family within your organization. How do you explain that? How do these young people make the, you know, environment, the corporate environment so wonderful?
SPEAKER 04 :
They're very caring. They're very generous. They're very loving. They love to work in teams. They love to support their fellow employees. And they're just great workers. And they have a great love for you. And you're actually more popular with them than I am, which is a little upsetting, but that's okay. But they do a wonderful job for us. They're just terrific.
SPEAKER 06 :
You're pretty popular. Yeah, I've heard sometimes they're teamed up with kind of a partner. Can you explain that? Let's say Kennedy's working at your place or one of Kennedy's friends, and they might have some issues with figuring something out or learning something. Don't you have partners that help them?
SPEAKER 04 :
We have a buddy system, and a lot of our ambassadors have buddies, which are their typical employee peers. And they'll help them as needed with, you know, various tasks and training and learning and just help them through the course of the day if that's needed. Not all of our ambassadors need that. But we do have one-on-one buddies, and they really enjoy being buddies. And they enjoy the relationships they develop and the help they provide. And, you know, we have employees that are working for more than just a paycheck. They're working to help people in an important mission. So I think that makes a difference.
SPEAKER 06 :
I think it does to the ambassadors, how excited every ambassador I've ever interviewed has been excited about going to work and getting a paycheck. Their families, their parents, of course, are relieved that their child has found a place and has a purpose and makes a living. And then also, I think I was just telling a friend of mine about your organization and explaining that. There is also like ARC University to teach them, you know, things about, you know, using the bus system, the public transit system, you know, about boundaries, et cetera. But I think even more importantly than all of that is the social circle that you guys create through the activities that you get the ambassadors together for, whether it be a dance or karaoke, that all of a sudden they may have been like in their neighborhood, the only kid with Down syndrome or the only kid with cerebral palsy. And then all of a sudden they have friends.
SPEAKER 04 :
hundreds of friends who are like them that they can hang out with their their jobs become a very central part of their life and a very central part of the life in their families and they love uh their jobs they hate to miss work there could be three feet of snow on the on the road and i'd have to order them not to come in for safety reasons because they just hate to miss work one of our we have supplemental programs that we've developed for our employees as you mentioned One is ARC University. A series of 12 post-secondary-style classes in money, computers, pet care, transportation, et cetera. And we designed it such that if they do a class, which are done over lunch, just for participation, they'll get a certificate. It's not grade-based. And if they do 6 of 12, they get a bachelor's degree, 9 of 12 a master's, 12 of 12 a Ph.D. Some of them have 5 or 6 Ph.D.s.
SPEAKER 06 :
Oh, wow.
SPEAKER 04 :
And I tell them that's a little upsetting because they have more degrees than me. But when you go to our graduation, you would think you're at Harvard commencement. They're just all fired up and proud in front of hundreds of families and friends. We also have a social program monthly as well where we'll go to the movies or the zoo or, you know, bowling or to a museum. One of their favorites is karaoke.
SPEAKER 06 :
Yeah.
SPEAKER 04 :
And at one of our karaoke, they wanted me to sing Ring of Fire. Did you? So being a professional and a CEO, I responded by hiding in the bathroom. And when I came out 15 minutes later, they were all there waiting for me and they marched me over to the mic.
SPEAKER 06 :
Oh, that's hilarious.
SPEAKER 04 :
It's a lot of fun. Then we also have a community service program with International Civitans, where they meet monthly and they plan projects to help the community. They may collect socks for the homeless, write letters, to seniors in assisted living centers or prepare packages for military service personnel serving overseas. But they love to support the community.
SPEAKER 06 :
I love it.
SPEAKER 04 :
We think we have one of the best programs, employment programs and supplemental programs in the country. We're very proud of that.
SPEAKER 06 :
Yeah, I would agree with you and I can see why. Now, when you say that the buddy system, that the buddy, you know, so the buddy might not be needed in a day to assist the ambassador or they might work side by side with them all day. It just depends on what the ambassador needs in terms of assistance in their job.
SPEAKER 04 :
It's really based on the needs of the ambassador. So for some, it can be sort of constant support and for others, it can be as needed. But everyone has a one-on-one buddy they can turn to if needed.
SPEAKER 06 :
As you mentioned, those relationships, many of your galas, your fundraisers, your celebrations, I've heard the buddy talk about their relationship with the ambassador. And I would agree with you that they also, the buddy benefits very much from that relationship with their ambassador. It's kind of touching how close they get.
SPEAKER 04 :
Yeah, we sometimes as a society try to make them more like us. And my own learning has been we should be more like them. I agree. Because they really are very generous human beings. Very inspiring.
SPEAKER 06 :
Now, for people, I always call ARC, you know, the experience shopping with a purpose. And every Saturday, I know that there's 50% off most items. And then there's a senior day on Tuesday. And there's an e-club at ARCthrift.com or ARCthrift.org that you can join. So when people shop, that money goes right back into the community to fund advocacy, you know, your programs to help people, whether they're an ambassador or not, right? Yeah.
SPEAKER 04 :
Yeah, the purchases that people make in our stores or the donations they make in our stores support advocacy programs, $150 million so far during my tenure. Wow. Support employment of people with developmental disabilities. Support support of the community generally. So we're one of the largest distributors of food to people in need. We're one of the largest relief agencies. We supply a million dollars in vouchers every year for use of people in need in our stores. We collect 40 to 50 tons of food every year. We're a large recycler. We've recycled over a billion pounds of donations during my tenure. So if you go to our website and look at our annual report, you'll see 40 pages of various supports we provide to Coloradans in need and people with disabilities.
SPEAKER 06 :
Oh, my goodness. All right. So through the course of this, you know, getting to know all these different personalities and your own experience with your son, Kennedy, with Down syndrome, you wrote a book that explains like your mission, your experience. So tell us about your book and, you know, and what you share with us in it.
SPEAKER 04 :
Yeah, a number of years ago, I wrote a book entitled Why Not Them? about my son Kennedy and about our ambassadors, our employees with developmental disabilities. We did a presentation to introduce the book, a tattered cover on Colfax. It was the number one nonfiction paperback bestseller for that week in Denver.
SPEAKER 06 :
I love it.
SPEAKER 04 :
But the book talks about the contributions that people with developmental disabilities make, my son and my ambassadors. And in that book, We relay a lot of fun stories about Kennedy, fun stories about our ambassador, some of the challenges we've encountered, and some of the efforts I made to create supports for people like Kennedy. And it got a really good response. It's available on Amazon. And, you know, proceeds from the book go to support people with developmental disabilities. But, um, you know, I just wanted to tell the story and make more people aware of who people with developmental disabilities really are. They really are.
SPEAKER 06 :
So any, um, stories you can think of from the book that people were touched by or that, you know, you felt were really important for you to, uh, to share?
SPEAKER 04 :
There's a lot of touching stories in the book. There's a story about my own son, Kennedy, who, you know, we're watching a Cat Stevens special. when he was two or three and then he stood up and started dancing. Now he dances anytime he hears music still. And there literally was a time when he would dance if we turned on the blender or opened the garage door, which I thought was very cool. Everything was music to Kennedy and still is. Uh, we tell, you know, some stories about some of my ambassadors, Lori, who, you know, in a wheelchair, great sense of humor dictates poetry with cerebral palsy. She told my CEO group at one meeting that she was gunning for my job because she told better parties. Right, right. And I chided her at bowling night. She said she was throwing me under the short bus.
SPEAKER 06 :
Oh, that's hilarious.
SPEAKER 04 :
Another fun story in the book is about one of our employees with Down syndrome who would bring in his bowling score every Wednesday and announce his score over the PA to all the customers and employees who would all applaud. So they just all have these wonderful personalities. And, you know, through no fault of their own, they have cognitive issues, but they have amazing personalities. They may have IQs less than 70 for the definition of IDD, developmental disability. They have EQs more on the order of 200 plus. And there's really a lot we can learn from these individuals.
SPEAKER 06 :
I agree. I love your organization. I love sharing your story and Kennedy's story. ARCthrift.org, again, they've got a couple of days that they have great deals, Saturday, Tuesday. And then if you're on their email list, you can find lots of great days to go. And any day is a great day to shop at ARC, Shopping with a Purpose. Thank you, Lloyd. You're a real blessing to the program.
SPEAKER 04 :
Thank you for your donations. Every time you donate to us, we see a big sales spike. Every time you donate.
SPEAKER 02 :
Thank you for listening to The Good News with Angie Austin on AM670 KLTT.
The Good News with Angie Austin has become a daily staple with loyal listeners. The show is a refreshingly different nationwide radio program that offers upbeat content, filled with inspiration offering hope to enrich your day-to-day life. Angie and the Good News Team will make you laugh out loud and even cry a little, all the while keeping you entertained and informed. Tune in for your daily dose of The Good News with Angie Austin! The Good News with Angie Austin airs M-F on KLTT AM 670 (95.1 FM in the northern Colorado) at 2 p.m. The Goods News Team is made of of Eric Reamer, Rachel Mains, and Traci Rock.
In this enlightening episode of The Good News with Angie Austin, Angie is joined by Grace Fox to discuss the concept of 'Joyful Disruptions'. Grace shares a profound experience from her travels in Romania that illustrates how unexpected disruptions can lead to powerful spiritual connections and personal growth. Together, they explore how embracing God's unexpected plans can enrich our lives with joy and purpose. Tune in to be inspired by tales of faith, resilience, and the beauty of life's unpredictable journey.
SPEAKER 06 :
welcome to the good news with angie austin now with the good news here's angie hello there friend angie austin and grace fox with the good news we're talking about in the new year joyful disruptions i love that title grace's book that we're speaking of today is fresh hope for today devotions for joy on the journey and um it's so funny joyce that welcome by the way thank you for having me again It's funny because just yesterday I posted on my Facebook something that I'd written several years back and it had to do with stopping to smell the donuts because my post was about, from five years ago, was about how I like to stop at the world's largest ball of twine. And then I had a picture from back then where we stopped at the dinosaur in the parking lot. It was a dinosaur gift shop outside of Palm Springs. And then Randy's Donuts near LAX in Los Angeles that's like a two-story high donut on top of, and I'd never stopped there because when I lived in California, I worked so much like 60 to 80 hours a week that I didn't do all the fun things. So now I like to stop and experience things. So what's funny is that before I even knew you, um, my title, my theme for the year, five years ago was the joy is in the journey. And so your book, Being Fresh Hope for Today, Devotions for Joy on the Journey, I just thought about because yesterday I decided my new theme for the year was the joy is in the journey. And then as I'm interviewing you and starting the interview, I'm like, wait a second. That was what I posted five years ago. I didn't even know you. And then today we're talking about your book, Devotions for Joy on the Journey. I just think God works in funny ways.
SPEAKER 05 :
Yeah, that is so cool. And then today's little discussion that we're going to have is about joyful disruption. So we keep bringing the joy back into it. That's great.
SPEAKER 06 :
And so as we're talking about the new year, you kind of preface this by saying to me, look, we all have a lot of plans for the new year, but be open to God's plans for us. So let's talk about this joyful disruption, devotion, and then what you want us to be, you know, open to this year.
SPEAKER 05 :
Yeah, for sure. So I wrote this little devotion after having an experience in Romania, where my husband and I were going from one destination to another, checking up on some of our missionaries and just making sure that they were doing well. And on the way, when we got to the Romanian border, the train stopped and some police officers came on board with German Shepherd dogs. They were sniffing for drugs and all this. But about four of them gathered at our little berth at the doorway and then just started talking away in Romanian to us. We didn't understand, but they were pointing and talking and finally realized, oh, man, they're asking for our passports. And so they checked mine. It was fine. They checked Gene's. And there was a problem with the stamp when he entered Europe on that one. They failed to put the proper stamp in passport control. And so they pulled us off the train with our suitcases. and took us into the nearest police station where there we were in a room with a little single light bulb hanging down from the roof and being questioned by a woman who spoke very good English. But, boy, they were just really grilling Jean over when he entered and whatnot. They finally took our passports and left the room, and we had no idea really what was going to happen because there was no explanation given for that. It was a little bit scary because people told us, you know, in some countries, Westerners are targets. And so they'd always told us in that particular country, don't give up your passport because they might ask for a bribe in order for you to get it back. Oh, interesting. And they stopped you, especially if you're involved in an accident as a foreigner. They just will regard you as somebody with money. And so they are going to want money before they get your car back or get your passport back or anything like that. And so we thought, oh, man, you know, there's our passports. We didn't really have a choice on giving them up. And and so we didn't know what was going to happen. But in the end, it worked out OK. But in the interim, we were left with a Romanian-speaking officer who wanted to practice his conversational English. And you know what had happened?
SPEAKER 06 :
Wait, what? He just said to you, look, I know they've got your passports, but I would just like to practice my English with you in the interim.
SPEAKER 05 :
Well, this is so funny, because it was a woman that took our passports away. I think she was in a position of authority there, and she just assigned this guy to stay with us in this room. Yeah, and so he just started... kind of trying to talk as best he could in conversational English. But the neatest thing was, was it was Easter time. And so we got into a spiritual conversation on what is Easter? What does it mean? Oh, it means that Jesus died. Well, who's Jesus? You know, there's a lot of religion in some of those countries, but not a lot of people know who Jesus is. Wow. And so we got to explain who Jesus was. And the thing was, my dad had died a couple weeks prior, and I wasn't even able to attend the funeral because I was in Eastern Europe. And so I was able to share with him how my dad died, but that we knew he was with Jesus because he placed his faith in Jesus as a young man. And so we got to explain what that meant. And all of that in, you know, his practicing conversational English. So, yes, it was a real hassle when we got pulled off the train because we missed our connection. You know, it messed up the missionaries that were waiting to meet us at the end. We had to wait for the next train to come and all that. It was a headache. But God had better plans. And we had to be willing to hold our plans in an open hand so he could fulfill better plans. And that's how I think we need to go into the new year. We have all our hopes and dreams in our hands and they might all be good. That's great. But let's hold them in an open hand because God might have better plans yet. And so just hold them in an open hand. And if he disrupts our plans for something better, so be it. Let's just roll with it.
SPEAKER 06 :
Wow. I mean, that is crazy that God used these two people who were involved in ministry, you know, who would evangelize in a very subtle way to a guy that just wanted to speak English, you know, with you. And did you feel that he understood the gist of what you were getting at?
SPEAKER 05 :
We did. It was the best conversation ever. And what was kind of funny was at the end, like we really had a bond. I had a couple of granola bars on me. And we talked about his family. He told us we were able to ask him those questions using basic English. And he answered using basic English, but he told us he had a couple of children. And so I gave him the granola bars and I said, these are for your kids. And he smiled and stuck them in his pocket. And then I said, can I get a picture taken with you? And he kind of looked out the door down the hall to make sure nobody else was coming. And then he handed the camera to my husband and he goes, okay, now, now. And so he took the picture and, And then he disappeared for a moment and came back. He had his, his hand clutched closed and he took my hand, turned my palm up and then he put his clutched hand on top of my palm. And I'm thinking, what's he going to do? What's he going to put into my hand? Cause he could put something contraband in my hand and then, and then look like I'm holding it. And now he's going to want money to, you know, for me to kind of ride my way out of this situation. But, but he opened his hand onto mine and pressed a patch onto my hand. It was one of these fabric patches that you can sew onto a piece of clothing, and it came from the communist days. It was like a little relic from days gone by, and he just said, I just want you to have that. I just want you to take it and remember me.
SPEAKER 06 :
Do you still have it?
SPEAKER 05 :
I do. I do.
SPEAKER 06 :
That is so cool. And so the picture, do you still have the picture too?
SPEAKER 05 :
I do somewhere in a file, but I do have the patch. It's with me on a boat. It made the purge even when we moved onto the sailboat because it was such a special moment to connect with this police officer at that station in Romania. When it was all done, the whole situation was over. They brought our passports back and they realized that it was passport control issue, you know, stamping Dean's passport incorrectly. They apologized for the inconvenience. And then, and then this was so funny. The lady in charge says to this police officer, you take them to the train station and you get them on the next train. So he marched us to the train station. He told us to wait there. Well, he went back until the train arrived. It was about another hour's wait or something. And then he came back when the train pulled into the station, picked up our suitcases. He marched us onto the train, put our suitcase up above on a rack there. And then, you know, when he did, he he put his heels together like a soldier would. And he saluted us right there in the aisle of this train. Everybody else was watching. What in the world is going on with them? And then, you know, made sure that we were seated comfortably and off he went. It was an incredible situation where we just saw God at work. So that patch stayed with me as we moved on to the boat.
SPEAKER 06 :
That is such a cool experience. And like you said, joyful disruptions. Most people would have seen that as like, you know, you see people traveling and losing their marbles and yelling and throwing a fit. And they apologize saying it wasn't your fault. It was when you entered the country and that the stamp was, you know, not correct because, you know, fault on their country's end. not on yours and apologetic, but so many people would have been so harried by the disruption that they wouldn't have taken that opportunity to really enjoy that experience and share their faith. And that's such a great, I love the message for the new year that we have these wonderful plans, maybe for the new year, But they may not completely align with God's plans or there might be a detour or, as you put it, a disruption. And to be open to these detours because they might be wonderful experiences not only for you but the person that God brings into your path.
SPEAKER 05 :
Exactly. We don't know what God has in mind. And so as we enter this new year, I do it with joy. I do it with a sense of anticipation, maybe a little bit of trepidation over things that I have coming up. big tasks that are coming but i i'm just sort of leaving them in the lord's hands but i still need to be open to those disruptions and and we'll call them the divine disruptions because we can look at them irritated like like you were just mentioning a minute ago when the trip is disrupted we just want to wow let's just get on with it but but if god is in the midst of that if he's the one disrupting those plans they are divine and he's got a purpose And to be able to explore those purposes and roll with it. Go along with him on it. Don't fight him. Let's go along with him because he's got something good in mind.
SPEAKER 06 :
You know, I think about when I was taking my son, my daughter, and one of my son's teenage friends, we were going to Las Vegas from Colorado. And we broke down basically like in the middle of nowhere. There wasn't a town within an hour. And we had to wait quite some time for a tow truck. And we were on the side of a very busy highway in a in a ravine kind of like it was like it was I couldn't even imagine a more desolate area in this day and age in the United States where we barely could get cell service. And I had no idea where we were. So we walked down to like a mile marker and then it was starting to rain. And, you know, they wanted me to leave my kids behind in the car when they towed my truck because they might have not have room for my kids. I'm like, no, I have to stay until you can find a tow truck that has room for my kids. I can't leave my kids on the side of the road in the middle of the night. My daughter was like 12. So anyway, I used that whole opportunity because there was no rental car company in the town where we ended up and I was in a hotel and my car ended up being like the engine almost totaled because of some faulty part that had just been put into my car, like an expensive, a timing belt. So like I'd had like a thousand dollar bill, really prepped the car for the trip. And then they had to tow it back to Colorado. It was that damaged. And so to make a long story short, I used it as an opportunity to show the kids how to stay calm in like this really weird situation. We had to actually get, the only thing they had in town was a U-Haul truck rental company. So I had to rent a U-Haul to drive a few hours to a town that had a rental car company that then leave the U-Haul, take the rental car to Las Vegas. And we had to drive back to the U-Haul that was parked at like a little teeny airport in a small town and then switch out the rental car for the U-Haul because we had to bring the U-Haul back to the town where we'd rented that and then get the rest of the way back because my husband had to fly out to help us. Anyway, I just wanted to show the kids like stay calm and under pressure. So it was a good time for me to like teach them how to like not lose my marbles because we had so many things to figure out. Hey, Grace, we're out of time. I appreciate you so much. Happy New Year. GraceFox.com. Thank you, friend.
SPEAKER 05 :
You bet. Happy New Year to you, too.
SPEAKER 03 :
Aspen Park is listening to KLTT, the mighty 670.
SPEAKER 01 :
Arc Thrift has all your winter needs. You will find a variety of gently used and new items ranging from personalized Christmas gifts to ski clothes and exercise equipment, including tons of winter clothing to bundle up in. There's no need to spend hundreds of dollars on clothes or household furnishings when you can go to Arc Thrift. They have sales every weekend, and you can find almost everything you need at any of their stores. You might discover that hidden gem or snazzy one-of-a-kind jacket you can't find anywhere else. They also have a new store in Littleton at 7951 South Broadway. It is their new hidden treasure with quality items everywhere throughout the store. Buying from Ark gives back to your community. And Ark always needs new donations, so find one of their donation centers or stores and make sure to shop the store once you donate. To find the nearest Ark Thrift near you, go to arkthrift.com.
SPEAKER 06 :
Hey there, friend. Angie Austin here with the good news, along with one of my favorite guests, Lloyd Lewis. He is the president and CEO of ARK. You've heard me talk a lot about ARK on the program, ARKthrift.com, if you want more info. And Lloyd Lewis is joining us to talk about what's going on with ARK and also a little bit about his book as well. Welcome, Lloyd.
SPEAKER 04 :
Yeah, great to be with you again. Did you say one of your favorites? Did you say one of your favorites? Yeah, like top five. Did you say your favorite? Top five. Top five. Yeah, let's rephrase. Top five. Top three. Top three.
SPEAKER 06 :
Top three. You are so funny. So, Lloyd, I know you and many of your ambassadors well. I met you when your son was born. How old is Kennedy now? Kennedy turned 20 last August. Oh, my goodness. So Kennedy has Down syndrome. And after his birth, because you didn't know much about that whole world, you took a new career path at some point after Kennedy was born. So tell us about that career path and ARC.
SPEAKER 04 :
Yeah, I was in the private sector and I was a financial professional, including as a CFO for a high tech, ultimately sold to Micron before I joined ARC. But when Kennedy was born, I became very involved almost immediately in scientific research advocacy and met a neuroscientist at the University of Colorado. We partnered up and lobbied for additional funding for Down syndrome research, met with the director of the NIH, met with a number of people at CU, et cetera, et cetera. And also met a philanthropist daughter, Michelle C.,
SPEAKER 06 :
Yes.
SPEAKER 04 :
And her family has now created the world's largest Down Syndrome Research Institute named for the neuroscientist I brought into the project. That was my beginning effort to help people like my son. Shortly after that, I got recruited to Arcturus Stores, which is a 55 year old nonprofit whose mission is to fund advocacy for people with developmental disabilities, inclusive Down syndrome, autism, cerebral palsy, and all forms of cognitive deficit. And I'm nearing my 20th year with ARC. Oh, my goodness. We've had a lot of good luck, and we've been able to dramatically increase funding and support and now become the largest employer of people with developmental disabilities in Colorado. So it's been really fun.
SPEAKER 06 :
All right, so largest employer of people with developmental disabilities in Colorado. When you started with AHRQ almost 20 years ago, if I recall correctly, there were about five ambassadors who were differently abled, and now you have how many?
SPEAKER 04 :
Yeah, we had 10 ambassadors who had developmental disabilities working for us in 2005. Today we have nearly 500. They work in all parts of the company and just do amazing work for us and inspire all of us.
SPEAKER 06 :
And we've talked about it before because I have such an affinity for your ambassadors about what it is that people love about them so much and how they add to the camaraderie and the feeling of family within your organization. How do you explain that? How do these young people make the, you know, environment, the corporate environment so wonderful?
SPEAKER 04 :
They're very caring. They're very generous. They're very loving. They love to work in teams. They love to support their fellow employees. And they're just great workers. And they have a great love for you. And you're actually more popular with them than I am, which is a little upsetting, but that's okay. But they do a wonderful job for us. They're just terrific.
SPEAKER 06 :
You're pretty popular. Yeah, I've heard sometimes they're teamed up with kind of a partner. Can you explain that? Let's say Kennedy's working at your place or one of Kennedy's friends, and they might have some issues with figuring something out or learning something. Don't you have partners that help them?
SPEAKER 04 :
We have a buddy system, and a lot of our ambassadors have buddies, which are their typical employee peers. And they'll help them as needed with, you know, various tasks and training and learning and just help them through the course of the day if that's needed. Not all of our ambassadors need that. But we do have one-on-one buddies, and they really enjoy being buddies. And they enjoy the relationships they develop and the help they provide. And, you know, we have employees that are working for more than just a paycheck. They're working to help people in an important mission. So I think that makes a difference.
SPEAKER 06 :
I think it does to the ambassadors, how excited every ambassador I've ever interviewed has been excited about going to work and getting a paycheck. Their families, their parents, of course, are relieved that their child has found a place and has a purpose and makes a living. And then also, I think I was just telling a friend of mine about your organization and explaining that. There is also like ARC University to teach them, you know, things about, you know, using the bus system, the public transit system, you know, about boundaries, et cetera. But I think even more importantly than all of that is the social circle that you guys create through the activities that you get the ambassadors together for, whether it be a dance or karaoke, that all of a sudden they may have been like in their neighborhood, the only kid with Down syndrome or the only kid with cerebral palsy. And then all of a sudden they have friends.
SPEAKER 04 :
hundreds of friends who are like them that they can hang out with their their jobs become a very central part of their life and a very central part of the life in their families and they love uh their jobs they hate to miss work there could be three feet of snow on the on the road and i'd have to order them not to come in for safety reasons because they just hate to miss work one of our we have supplemental programs that we've developed for our employees as you mentioned One is ARC University. A series of 12 post-secondary-style classes in money, computers, pet care, transportation, et cetera. And we designed it such that if they do a class, which are done over lunch, just for participation, they'll get a certificate. It's not grade-based. And if they do 6 of 12, they get a bachelor's degree, 9 of 12 a master's, 12 of 12 a Ph.D. Some of them have 5 or 6 Ph.D.s.
SPEAKER 06 :
Oh, wow.
SPEAKER 04 :
And I tell them that's a little upsetting because they have more degrees than me. But when you go to our graduation, you would think you're at Harvard commencement. They're just all fired up and proud in front of hundreds of families and friends. We also have a social program monthly as well where we'll go to the movies or the zoo or, you know, bowling or to a museum. One of their favorites is karaoke.
SPEAKER 06 :
Yeah.
SPEAKER 04 :
And at one of our karaoke, they wanted me to sing Ring of Fire. Did you? So being a professional and a CEO, I responded by hiding in the bathroom. And when I came out 15 minutes later, they were all there waiting for me and they marched me over to the mic.
SPEAKER 06 :
Oh, that's hilarious.
SPEAKER 04 :
It's a lot of fun. Then we also have a community service program with International Civitans, where they meet monthly and they plan projects to help the community. They may collect socks for the homeless, write letters, to seniors in assisted living centers or prepare packages for military service personnel serving overseas. But they love to support the community.
SPEAKER 06 :
I love it.
SPEAKER 04 :
We think we have one of the best programs, employment programs and supplemental programs in the country. We're very proud of that.
SPEAKER 06 :
Yeah, I would agree with you and I can see why. Now, when you say that the buddy system, that the buddy, you know, so the buddy might not be needed in a day to assist the ambassador or they might work side by side with them all day. It just depends on what the ambassador needs in terms of assistance in their job.
SPEAKER 04 :
It's really based on the needs of the ambassador. So for some, it can be sort of constant support and for others, it can be as needed. But everyone has a one-on-one buddy they can turn to if needed.
SPEAKER 06 :
As you mentioned, those relationships, many of your galas, your fundraisers, your celebrations, I've heard the buddy talk about their relationship with the ambassador. And I would agree with you that they also, the buddy benefits very much from that relationship with their ambassador. It's kind of touching how close they get.
SPEAKER 04 :
Yeah, we sometimes as a society try to make them more like us. And my own learning has been we should be more like them. I agree. Because they really are very generous human beings. Very inspiring.
SPEAKER 06 :
Now, for people, I always call ARC, you know, the experience shopping with a purpose. And every Saturday, I know that there's 50% off most items. And then there's a senior day on Tuesday. And there's an e-club at ARCthrift.com or ARCthrift.org that you can join. So when people shop, that money goes right back into the community to fund advocacy, you know, your programs to help people, whether they're an ambassador or not, right? Yeah.
SPEAKER 04 :
Yeah, the purchases that people make in our stores or the donations they make in our stores support advocacy programs, $150 million so far during my tenure. Wow. Support employment of people with developmental disabilities. Support support of the community generally. So we're one of the largest distributors of food to people in need. We're one of the largest relief agencies. We supply a million dollars in vouchers every year for use of people in need in our stores. We collect 40 to 50 tons of food every year. We're a large recycler. We've recycled over a billion pounds of donations during my tenure. So if you go to our website and look at our annual report, you'll see 40 pages of various supports we provide to Coloradans in need and people with disabilities.
SPEAKER 06 :
Oh, my goodness. All right. So through the course of this, you know, getting to know all these different personalities and your own experience with your son, Kennedy, with Down syndrome, you wrote a book that explains like your mission, your experience. So tell us about your book and, you know, and what you share with us in it.
SPEAKER 04 :
Yeah, a number of years ago, I wrote a book entitled Why Not Them? about my son Kennedy and about our ambassadors, our employees with developmental disabilities. We did a presentation to introduce the book, a tattered cover on Colfax. It was the number one nonfiction paperback bestseller for that week in Denver.
SPEAKER 06 :
I love it.
SPEAKER 04 :
But the book talks about the contributions that people with developmental disabilities make, my son and my ambassadors. And in that book, We relay a lot of fun stories about Kennedy, fun stories about our ambassador, some of the challenges we've encountered, and some of the efforts I made to create supports for people like Kennedy. And it got a really good response. It's available on Amazon. And, you know, proceeds from the book go to support people with developmental disabilities. But, um, you know, I just wanted to tell the story and make more people aware of who people with developmental disabilities really are. They really are.
SPEAKER 06 :
So any, um, stories you can think of from the book that people were touched by or that, you know, you felt were really important for you to, uh, to share?
SPEAKER 04 :
There's a lot of touching stories in the book. There's a story about my own son, Kennedy, who, you know, we're watching a Cat Stevens special. when he was two or three and then he stood up and started dancing. Now he dances anytime he hears music still. And there literally was a time when he would dance if we turned on the blender or opened the garage door, which I thought was very cool. Everything was music to Kennedy and still is. Uh, we tell, you know, some stories about some of my ambassadors, Lori, who, you know, in a wheelchair, great sense of humor dictates poetry with cerebral palsy. She told my CEO group at one meeting that she was gunning for my job because she told better parties. Right, right. And I chided her at bowling night. She said she was throwing me under the short bus.
SPEAKER 06 :
Oh, that's hilarious.
SPEAKER 04 :
Another fun story in the book is about one of our employees with Down syndrome who would bring in his bowling score every Wednesday and announce his score over the PA to all the customers and employees who would all applaud. So they just all have these wonderful personalities. And, you know, through no fault of their own, they have cognitive issues, but they have amazing personalities. They may have IQs less than 70 for the definition of IDD, developmental disability. They have EQs more on the order of 200 plus. And there's really a lot we can learn from these individuals.
SPEAKER 06 :
I agree. I love your organization. I love sharing your story and Kennedy's story. ARCthrift.org, again, they've got a couple of days that they have great deals, Saturday, Tuesday. And then if you're on their email list, you can find lots of great days to go. And any day is a great day to shop at ARC, Shopping with a Purpose. Thank you, Lloyd. You're a real blessing to the program.
SPEAKER 04 :
Thank you for your donations. Every time you donate to us, we see a big sales spike. Every time you donate.
SPEAKER 02 :
Thank you for listening to The Good News with Angie Austin on AM670 KLTT.
Join Angie Austin as she welcomes Gary H. Lovejoy, Ph.D., the author of 'Marriages in the Bible: What do they tell us?' Dr. Lovejoy shares his insights from over 40 years of counseling and academic experience, providing a unique perspective on marriage through Biblical narratives. Listen as they explore relationships, divorce-proofing strategies, and the importance of breaking destructive communication patterns. The episode invites listeners to discover the gems of wisdom hidden within Biblical stories, offering a comprehensive blueprint for a happy and fulfilling marriage.
SPEAKER 01 :
welcome to the good news with angie austin now with the good news here's angie
SPEAKER 06 :
Hey there, friend. Angie Austin here with the good news. And the good news is we have joining us author Gary H. Lovejoy, Ph.D. He wrote the book Marriages in the Bible. What do they tell us? Welcome, Gary.
SPEAKER 04 :
Well, thank you for inviting me on your show, Angie.
SPEAKER 06 :
Oh, I'm excited about this. I know you talk about marriage being a complex union, and I can definitely attest to that. So first of all, just give us an overview of your book and a little bit about you. Yes.
SPEAKER 04 :
In regards to the book, one of the things – well, first of all, I can just describe a little bit of my own background. I was – I've been in counseling probably for over 40 years. I've had a private practice in counseling, and I featured marriage counseling. I've counseled hundreds of couples, and I also taught college, and I taught – psychology and courses. And then I also taught world religions and Old and New Testament. And that was on a secular campus, which was a unique opportunity. Oh, wow. It was. It was very, very interesting. And so I've had both the experience on college campus. I've also had my private practice. And it's been a great career. With regard to the book... I've read lots of books on marriage, but one of the things that struck me was that, um, no book had been focused on the actual marriages in the Bible itself. They would talk about marriage principles and they'd use passages of scripture to substantiate their points, which, and many of them were very good, but, uh, but no one actually has ever looked directly and examined in detail the, uh, marriages in the Bible. And as I went back through, um, the Bible and looked at all the different marriages that God describes, both in the Old and the New Testament, I was struck by the fact that at least in some cases, a great deal of detail, but he throws in details about marriage, which you might initially think, why was he putting that in there? Because God never does anything randomly. It's always with a purpose. And what I discovered was that each of these marriages, he was giving us some clues about what works or what doesn't work in relationship. I looked at 17 marriages in this book, both in the Old Testament and the New, and some of them were good marriages, some of them were terrible marriages, some of them were ugly marriages. But in each of them, as he describes them, it's like a jigsaw puzzle. Each piece he gives some gem of understanding about marriage relationships. So that by the end, I take all these different pieces, piece them together, and it forms a blueprint for a happy, fulfilling marriage. And so I believe that what God was doing in describing these various marriages is, and then taking the time to actually do that, I think was to design the fact that we need to understand what the complex relationship of marriage really is all about what works what doesn't work what makes it effective what makes it ineffective and um and when you're done looking at the marriages and i at the last chapter i pull these all together and then i put the jigsaw puzzle together and it's a beautiful blueprint of what makes for happy and fulfilling marriages so that's why i wrote the book and uh and i think this is god speaking to us directly through his word what the best kind of marriage that we can possibly have to derive the greatest fulfillment and satisfaction from it.
SPEAKER 06 :
I love this. Okay, so I want to talk about, you just mentioned the blueprint. So, of course, we all want that. I'm 20 years in to my marriage, but in like I'm doing time. I'm 20 years in. I've been in for 20. Um, no, but, you know, and I, I would say we have a relatively, uh, I would say like, you know, um, uh, nine out of 10, you know, we've got three teenagers. So that, you know, complicates things because we have different views on, you know, how to handle them per se. Uh, but when you talk about that blueprint or maybe divorce proofing a marriage, let's start there. Is there such a thing as divorce proofing a marriage?
SPEAKER 04 :
Uh, yes, I believe there is. Um, nothing is a 100% guarantee, of course, but yes, there are a lot of things we can do in marriage that can keep it alive and well, and I think a lot of times marriage dies by a thousand cuts. It kind of like dies from neglect. Marriage is, as you said, is a complex union. It's a cross-pollinization of two sets of interpersonal communication habits, two sets of of expectations and two sets of conflict resolution styles, most of which have been originally learned from our families of origin. And when a couple comes in and they're struggling or whatever, one of the first questions I ask is, what kind of expectations do you have coming into the marriage? And then from there, start talking about what did they learn about intimacy in their own families of origin? Because many times people are simply repeating actually the mistakes, the mistaken interaction patterns that went on in their own families of origin. And they know no other means, so they apply them to their own marriage. And it doesn't work. It doesn't work any better there than it did in their families of origin. Now, sometimes it might be they may tweak it a little bit and make it a little different, but it'll still be the same problem. And so sometimes people get really almost mesmerized by the A certain routine, it becomes very routinized, and it can be very, very dysfunctional. I don't know if you have the time, but I can share an example of that. Yes, please. Okay. I had a couple. Actually, the wife came in. Most often the wife is the one who comes in first, and then her husband comes in later. Although sometimes they'll arrive together. But at any rate, this woman came in, and she was talking about her marriage, and it was just – they fought every single day and had done so for over five years. I marveled at the ability of them to even stay together as long as – and they had really terrible fights. And I said, well, tell me, what is the anatomy of their fights? And so she said he hated his job, and he'd come home in a foul mood, and he would take it out on her, and he would start in on her. and she was no wallflower, she would fight back. And so they would have these knock-down, drag-out battles almost every single night, and she was exhausted. She looked like she'd been through World War II. And so I said something that surprised her. I said, well, I think your relationship is too predictable. I mean, there are a lot of things wrong with a relationship, but I just said, I think it's too predictable. And she said, what do you mean? I said, well, let me ask you a question. I said, do you... Do you know pretty much what he's going to say when he comes home? Oh, yeah, I'm pretty sure it's going to be another. He gets home, I'm bracing for it because I know what's going to happen. And then I said, well, does he know what you're going to say in response? And she kind of made a sly smile and said, yeah, he knows pretty much most of my attacks. And I said, well, you see, you know each other's response. It's a dance you're doing that is not working. And so I said, why don't you try something different? And, um, and she said, well, what? And I said, well, uh, I suggested to her to get a squirt gun, buy one on the way home, fill it with water and stick it in the purse. And the next time he starts in on there, you know, when he comes home and starts in on it, instead of doing what she normally does, do something different, which was to pull out the squirt gun and give him a shot and squirt him and then run giggling out of the room. I said, do you think you can do that? And she says, yeah. And you think that would be different? Oh, way different. And, uh, So she says, okay, I'll give it a try. And so she went home, and two weeks later I saw her, and she came in. She was radiant. And, in fact, her husband made major changes, and we all mentioned that in a moment. And he joined us later, and we really were able to work through a very good relationship. But what happened was this. She said, I did what she suggested, and I got the squirt gun on, And sure enough, he came home and he started on me. But instead of doing what I normally do, I pulled out my squirt gun and gave him a squirt and came giggling out of the room. Except I did one other thing. I looked over my shoulder because I wanted to see how he was responding. And she said he was just sitting there, standing there, water dripping off the end of his nose with a look on his face like, what was that all about? But she said it was effective in stopping the argument. The shock value alone was good enough for that. And so she said, that worked for that night. And the next night, she said, it happened all over again. He came in in foul mood as usual and started in on her. She did the same thing again. Third night, the pattern repeated itself, and she pulled out her squirt gun to give him a shot. And when she did, she turned around and faced him. He was standing there. She was looking down the barrel of his water gun. And so she squirted him. He squirted her back. And they ended up having an old-fashioned squirt gun fight, running through the house, laughing their heads off, squirting each other until they were soaking wet, fell on the ground, laughing as hard as they could. And suddenly they looked at each other and said, you know, this is the first time we've laughed in over five years. Wow. And yet they were first attracted to each other because they really had fun together. Well, they had not had fun for five years. But they realized that That's what they missed in their relationship. And so they sat up soaking wet as they were and began talking seriously about their relationship. And they decided to make some serious changes. They wanted to recapture what they once had. And so he came in and we worked together for the next six months. And they ended up with a very, very powerful relationship. They still are very vibrant to this day. But what was key there was not the squirt gun. It was something to break up the patterns that they had become so enmeshed in that was destroying their relationship. And I don't think they would last a whole lot longer. She was looked like she was about to finish. And, uh, she came in, this is a desperate move to do something, but it, but people get trapped into these patterns of relationships that are very dysfunctional, very destructive. And, uh, again, death by a thousand cuts, Matt kind of marriage. And, uh, And they can keep repeating it until they kill the marriage off. Something happens that will break that pattern. And sometimes just doing something different will do that.
SPEAKER 06 :
Well, yeah, just one little thing. And breaking that pattern, it's an interesting way to do it for sure. But if that's not something we feel comfortable with, then there's other ways to do it. There isn't just one way to skin a cat, as they say, which I guess isn't the most great terminology. But I like the idea, though, of giving people just, I mean, these patterns we get into are so destructive and so repetitive that it's shocking to me that well-educated people continue to do this. So when people like in this case, she sounded the alarm. Who is the first person in a marriage do you think who sounds the alarm to trouble and why?
SPEAKER 04 :
Yes. Well, it's usually the wife who does. In fact, almost when I do marriage counseling, probably at least in 50 to 60 percent of the cases, the wife comes in first. She's the scout, so to speak. And oftentimes the husband is very reluctant to speak. They don't like to share their dirty linen in public before a stranger, and so they're reluctant. And when it comes to actually divorce, the statistics show that 70% to 80% of women are the ones who initiate divorce. Men don't. And part of the reason is that men have certain benefits from marriage that they don't want to give up, such as – such as the domestic issues that they get taken care of, they get dinner, they get some other benefits from it. But when we look at that, and by the way, those statistics are applied to marriages of all age ranges, regardless of whether the couple is in their early 20s or in their 90s. Two of the most common complaints from women is either neglect, either physically or emotionally or both, in which they feel excruciatingly lonely in a family, in a relationship. You know, a lot of people think, well, if I didn't marry... Hey, doctor.
SPEAKER 06 :
Doctor, I hate to... I'm so wrapped up in what you're saying that we're out of time. Will you stick around while we take a break? Sure. Okay. All right, doc. We'll be right back with the good news.
SPEAKER 07 :
Crumbling your tune to KLTT The Mighty 670.
SPEAKER 02 :
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SPEAKER 06 :
Hey there, friend. Welcome back to the good news. Well, I got so wrapped up into what Gary Lovejoy is telling us about that I lost track of time, which I often do when we have guests on. Just thrilled to have you, Dr. Gary Lovejoy, Ph.D., Marriages in the Bible. What do they tell us? Okay, Doc, go ahead and pick up where we left off.
SPEAKER 04 :
Okay. So as I said before, women are usually the ones that initiate the divorce. And by the way, they initiate more often now, partly because women have more job opportunities, have higher independent incomes. In fact, sometimes women have higher incomes than their husbands. And so it makes getting a divorce less financially risky than it has been in the past. And likewise, too, divorces often become easier to get, especially after the legalization of no-fault divorces. So And as I said, men gain benefits from marriage, such as better health, longer life expectancy, and they're being taken care of domestically. Women don't enjoy the same perks. And so men are less likely to initiate the divorce, even if they're angry within their relationship. But I was saying about women's common complaint, one is neglect. They feel either emotionally or physically neglect. And when I say physically, I don't mean just sexually, but Just touching, just holding your spouse's face and telling her you love her, those kinds of touching, those intimate kinds of touching. And so they feel excruciatingly lonely in a relationship. And like I was saying before when we had to stop is that we often think of, well, if I don't get married, I'll be really lonely. But in fact – Some of the loneliest people I've ever met are in marriage, and it's because their marriage has become so empty and without meaning. The other one is having over-controlling husbands. They often are into a basic power struggle in their marriages, and they hate it. And it's probably been going on since day one. Women usually are socialized to be more emotionally aware than men, and so they're more likely to perceive problems in the relationship earlier. And also I think women are also better communicators than men and are more likely to talk about their problems that they perceive going on, and they want to talk about it. Because men are less likely to have that kind of emotional awareness, and I think it's a cultural thing partly, partly also familial issues. But they are less likely to have that emotional awareness to see as clearly the problems as the wife does and the communication skills to talk about them are not as good. And so this leads women to feelings that their needs are not being met in the relationship, and they become increasingly dissatisfied. Men, on the other hand, it's more an issue of adequacy. They often feel like they're constantly criticized. Respect is a huge issue for them. And so when they're exposed to constant criticism and nagging in a marriage, it's a real killer. And they often feel like, I never can do anything right in my wife's eyes. no matter what I do, it doesn't matter. She's going to criticize it. And they end up feeling completely helpless and they hate that feeling. Men do not like to feel inadequate, but oftentimes within the context of marriage, that's exactly how they feel. And, um, uh, and a wife's continuous criticism usually is, uh, is emerging because she's so unhappy in the relationship because, um, uh, because she feels alone. She feels like they're not connected. They, you know, lots of different reasons. And so, uh, so she doesn't feel like Hermes are meeting Matt, and he doesn't feel like his are. And so there's a chasm that develops between the two of them, and they have to begin to understand where they came from. And so many times they don't understand the dynamics of their families in terms of how they're impacting on their present marriage. And so that makes a huge difference. And so it makes it very difficult. And one of the other things I just might mention in this regard, and this is true for both men and women in the relationship, is one of the most common origins of problems within the relationship is low self-esteem. It's interesting because there's a passage in Psalm 46.10. It says, be still and know that I am God. And the question is, why did he put that in there? Well, of course, being still is that we're so busy anyway. We're always involved in our own lives. So it takes time to be still enough Sit down and think about your relationship to God. Know that God, because we get the wellspring. God is the wellspring, really, of a believer's identity formation. And it's in our relationship with him that we are confronted with three important things and three important truths about ourselves. First of all, the persistence of our sin nature. Secondly, our inherent lovability. That's the self-esteem issue. Consider the power of God's grace in confirming our essential worth in Christ. Without self-esteem, you don't really have the ability, and this sounds almost like an oxymoron, but without self-esteem, you do not have the ability to be truly humble. And why do I say that? Because when people have low self-esteem, where is their attention? It's on themselves. Oh, I look terrible. They'll go to a meeting and they'll walk away thinking, oh, I shouldn't have said that. Oh, I really blew this. I really blew that. What do other people think? They are always mining the social relationships for what positive feedback they can get back because they don't feel it themselves. And so they are riveted. They become actually more self-centered because even in entering relationships, what am I getting or not getting in this relationship? It's not what can I give to the relationship, it's what I'm getting in our relationship. And that's what low self-esteem does. It focuses us on what are we getting or are we being rejected and so forth. High sensitivity to perceived words that felt like, well, you've criticized me. It may not have been a criticism, but they are hypersensitized to it and hypervigilant to it. But when I say our lovability... And people misunderstand that and think, oh, are we supposed to be narcissistic? No, that's not what it is. In fact, that's just the opposite. Because when we have the sense of self-esteem, we are able then, that issue is settled, and we can look out and serve other people. And that's why I think when Jesus is saying that you love others, love your neighbor as yourself, He was presuming, presupposing that we would have love for ourselves. Not love in the sense of narcissism, like I'm important and more important than anybody else, but rather loving ourselves in the sense that we appreciate God's creative ability in creating us with the strength that he uniquely gave to us. From the beginning, our love ability has been linked together. not to what others think, but because we're created in the image of God. And to deny our own lovability is to deny His truth. And the reason I say that is to repudiate, if we repudiate our person, we reject the nature of His. And you have to think about that for a moment. Because when it says in 1 John that God is not just merely loving, He is love. He's the embodiment of love. And so a God who is love cannot create anything in his image that is not lovable. I can draw on the knowledge of that. When you were having your first child, did you and your husband talk about, well, what are we going to have? A monkey? A squirrel? What do you think? No, you knew you were going to have a baby. Why? Because you could only produce that which is in your own image physically. And from a spiritual standpoint, that's exactly what is true for God. God can only create something in his image that is lovable. Therefore, it would be an act against his own character if he didn't produce that. It was lovable. And that's why he sees us through those eyes that we are lovable to him, so lovable that he was willing to give his life on the cross for our sake. And that's why that was the greatest confirmation. In fact, that's where we derive our sense of humility, because I think humility is is a sense of worth affirmed in Christ and of a sense of an adequacy empowered by the Holy Spirit. And so it includes an attitude of gratefulness that God and that Christ has covered the cost of our sin and of modesty and how we see our own importance. And so it helps us to turn outward and so that we're serving other people. And I think the way I think of it in this way, instead of thinking less of ourselves, we think of ourselves less. Ah. And so in that respect, we are then more likely to want to serve others, and that's where our attention would be. And oftentimes that's how people even look for churches. What do they say when they're looking for a church? I'm trying to find a church that meets my needs. Right, right. Do people ever say, I look for a church where I can give of myself to somebody else or to the church? No, we don't usually say that.
SPEAKER 03 :
Right.
SPEAKER 04 :
In fact, we just finished – We just finished Christmas, the holiday season. And, you know, how people line up the family and take a picture.
SPEAKER 06 :
Yes.
SPEAKER 04 :
And I usually ask people, what's the first thing you look at when you look at that photo? You look at yourself. If it's a good picture of you, it's a great picture. If it's a terrible picture of you, you didn't have the right expression or whatever, eyes were closed or whatever, then you say, well, it's a terrible picture. Even though it was really good of everyone else because we're focused on us and ourselves. And what high self-esteem does is it enables us to see outside of ourselves and to serve others. And so I think that's what's so important, I think, involved in that. And that's what the essence of humility is all about.
SPEAKER 06 :
I love it. At the end of the book, I know that you have a final appraisal. So let's talk about, we've got about two or three minutes left. What advice do you give in your final appraisal in marriages in the Bible? What do they tell us?
SPEAKER 04 :
Yes, well, there are many marriages, of course, that we cover, but just to use an example, Abraham and Sarah. Abraham was an interesting character because he was very bold. He followed God's calling and left Haran with his family and headed out for a country he was unfamiliar with and probably dangerous along the way. And yet he was able and bold enough to do that. However, in his domestic relationship, it was just the opposite. He was very passive, and he was very— almost placating in his marriage because what happened, I remember twice, not once, but once with the Pharaoh and again with King Abimelech, where he was fearful for his own life. So what did he do? He shoved his wife out there and said, here's my sister, take her. And I don't think Sarah was terribly impressed by his protectiveness. And that's one of the things that's important is that We protect our wives or we protect our spouse. In other words, we don't allow someone to jump on our spouse and really be criticizing without coming to their protection. And when we don't, people become very disengaged in the relationship. They feel unprotected. In fact, I've done work with marriages where it's very, very difficult because maybe let's say the husband is – very close to his family and his family doesn't want to let go of him and they get married. And the wife feels like she's competing with his family for his attention. And if the family wants to do something that she doesn't want to do, he goes with the family. And so he's not efficiently emancipated from his own family of origin. And so consequently, she feels unprotected and she feels unimportant. And that's a deadly situation. I've seen that happen on numerous occasions. So it's really important to be assertive in our relationship and in protecting this. So that's one example. Another is just to be transparent with each other, disclosing our thoughts and our feelings so that our spouse is not in the dark. Sometimes you come in, they're harboring secrets. They don't even know what's going on in the mind of their partner. And when they don't, then these things just simply go underground and work like a cancer, slowly eroding and killing off the relationship. So it's really important to be honest in disclosing our thoughts and feelings and what's going on inside and to actively practice honesty in our relationship. And then another is to kind of take the initiative to propose solutions.
SPEAKER 05 :
Gary, I hate to say it, but we're out of time. We used up the whole show. Well, give us a website where we can find you.
SPEAKER 04 :
Yes, counselingforthefuture.com. And then in terms of the book, it's available on almost all the media outlets. It's being released on February 1st, offering the Kindle version of the book for free. If you go to Amazon Kindle Unlimited, you can download it for free.
SPEAKER 06 :
Well, sorry to say we're out of time, Gary Lovejoy. Marriage is in the Bible. What do they tell us? Thank you, Gary.
SPEAKER 04 :
Thank you very much.
SPEAKER 01 :
Thank you for listening to The Good News with Angie Austin on AM670 KLTT.
In this episode of The Good News, Angie Austin and Jim Stovall reflect on cherished family traditions and the meaning of Christmas in their lives. They explore how the wisdom passed down through generations, such as reading the Christmas story, shapes their present experiences. The discussion transitions into Jim's expertise in risk assessment, highlighting how these principles apply to everyday decision-making and the unexpected lessons learned along the journey.
SPEAKER 01 :
Welcome to The Good News with Angie Austin. Now, with The Good News, here's Angie.
SPEAKER 03 :
Hey there, Angie Austin here with The Good News along with Jim Stovall. Welcome, Jim.
SPEAKER 05 :
Hey, it is great to be with you.
SPEAKER 03 :
How was your Christmas?
SPEAKER 05 :
Christmas was wonderful. It's, you know, a little different this year. You know, different. My father's gone and he's celebrating in heaven. And, you know, some of the family is... separated by time and space, but we're together in spirit and, uh, we will get together again soon.
SPEAKER 03 :
Now, was your wife Crystal able to help some, um, you know, various, uh, economic systems with her shopping this year?
SPEAKER 05 :
Yes, she did make a trip to New York, uh, the week before Christmas and stimulated the economy greatly. And, uh, so, uh, We can all look forward to good economic numbers here at the end of the year.
SPEAKER 03 :
Excellent. Tell her thank you for that. I appreciate that.
SPEAKER 05 :
I will. She's always willing to do her part.
SPEAKER 03 :
Do her part. Right, right, right. Yeah, I know you and I talked about how your dad read. Was it the night before Christmas, every Christmas?
SPEAKER 05 :
No, he actually read the Christmas story out of Luke, the actual story itself.
SPEAKER 03 :
And how much your nephew liked that. So who read it this year?
SPEAKER 05 :
My nephew did.
SPEAKER 03 :
Oh, he did. Oh, that's so neat that he continued the tradition.
SPEAKER 05 :
It is now the new tradition and it is his to do. And yeah, when we first started out, he was so young and my father started reading it. He said, it's the Charlie Brown story. He had not, he thought that that's because that's the one Linus reads on that. On the TV special.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yes.
SPEAKER 05 :
I had to explain to him that it, well, there was Linus got it from Luke, but anyway, so.
SPEAKER 03 :
Oh, that's beautiful. All right. So this week we are talking about your winner's wisdom column, and this is the beta factor. What's this all about?
SPEAKER 05 :
Well, my professional background, I started out as an investment broker for the New York Stock Exchange. And in that world, you look at analytics and you look at alpha. Alpha is simply how well something performs and what return did you get on your money. Beta is how much risk did you take or what was the volatility. And you can't really judge one without the other. And we survive and thrive in our personal and professional lives when we make good decisions. But that's usually a matter at some level of assessing And, you know, if you have a, you know, if you're going to go out and mow your lawn and your lawnmower engine has not been working terribly well, but you think it'll be good enough to get through and you're willing, let's give it a shot. You know, you start the engine and try it. If you're going on a trip in a single engine plane and the engine's giving you trouble, you don't start. You don't try it. Now, it can be the same level of engine problem, but the risk is so much higher. Because one is, hey, I might have to take it to the repair shop and finish my lawn tomorrow. The other is, you could die. And, you know, people, we have to look at the risk on everything before we make decisions. And rarely are they the same. You've all been in traffic. And, you know, Angie, you've seen, you know, that guy next to you, he's playing the radio loud and revving his engine. And the minute the light turns green, he speeds off and he goes through traffic. He cuts people off. He does all this stuff. Then you come to the next life, next light, and there he is again, same guy. And he does that time after time after time. And you may get to your destination at about the same time. And you would think, well, it's just as good one way or the other. No, it's really not because he is taking great risk of hurting himself or someone else. And so we can't do these things without evaluating risk.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yes. And that makes me giggle about the cars because I'm not a very speedy driver. I think I was more excited to get ahead of things when I was younger. I see these people racing through traffic like that. And then I always think back to in college, I did date a guy that was the most aggressive driver. And he wasn't in person. He was pretty mild mannered, but behind the wheel. And we did get pulled over a few times. But boy, he would just really, I mean, pass people in situations that I thought were really dangerous. And it makes me laugh because, you know, unless we were on the highway, we pretty much did end up sitting right next to the person again.
SPEAKER 05 :
Yeah, it really doesn't make that much difference. Certainly not. risking your life for and then of course one of the greatest areas of risk when we make decisions is not to decide at all and in this week's column i wrote about my my football days i remember practicing just before a game and we were going over all of these plays and formations and wow it's amazing how many things you have to memorize and you know i got down on the line i get in my stance and i realized i don't know which one of these guys i'm supposed to block I really couldn't figure it out. So at that point they snapped the ball, the play goes off, and I didn't do anything. Well, the coach comes over, as only coaches can in that tone, and says, son, what was that? And I said, well, coach, I wasn't sure who to block. And he said, let me give you a hint here. Let me help you. He said, we have no plays here that don't involve you blocking someone. So if you get down there and you're not sure who to block, Block somebody because you might actually get the right guy. And if you get the wrong guy, at least you'll be out of the way. But don't just stand there because that's always the wrong thing to do. And, you know, that has, of course, I never made that mistake again playing football. And I try not to in life. I mean, there are times when, you know, if you avoid a decision long enough, you make the wrong decision. You lose your choice. And that's, you know, that's always the wrong thing to do.
SPEAKER 03 :
You know, when you were talking about, that is funny block somebody. I'm sorry, that was a good line. But when you talk about, you know, the lawnmower and how if you think it's not running well, but you may be able to finish the lawn before you, you know, work on it per se, you know, that may be worth the risk. But a lot of people, as you know, just keep driving something or doing something until it you know breaks down in a really up inopportune time i remember this one comedian saying every time he heard a rattle in his car his solution was just to gun it and so you're saying that there are that you just we need to really weigh our decisions and you've also talked before and you're doing the article too i guess about being paralyzed by decisions as well and i see that happen a lot with people and you say not making a decision is of course making a decision
SPEAKER 05 :
Yes, and that is always, you know, and you don't want to make a decision prematurely. I mean, you don't want to rush to judgment before you have all the facts. You want to wait until the optimal point to make the decision. And we have many, many opportunities come into our office every day. Had one this morning from the Czech Republic. They want me to do a thing over there. And, you know, the first thing I said, okay, we have all the information here. When do you have to have an answer on this? And, well, it's about three and a half weeks away. So I said, we'll get back to you well before that. But, you know, I'm not going to rush. I don't have to decide today or tomorrow. You know, I've got three weeks to make a decision, and the decision is just as good one way or the other. But if you wait six weeks, you no longer have a choice. You forfeited your option to do something.
SPEAKER 03 :
You know, I like to, you know, financially obviously figure things out. Like maybe in your decision, you know, you've got to figure out how much it would be for you and your assistant if it involved flying there and, you know, accommodations and a lot of number crunching. And as you know, club sports are really expensive. And I have three kids in club sports. We have eight trips this year. We didn't go anywhere for Christmas. We normally would be gone for like – I don't know, three weeks. And I was looking back at all the memories of all the great places we've gone the last, you know, I don't know, since they've been kids like South Padre Island and the Keys, Key Largo, Orlando, Palm Springs was a really neat one, California, San Diego, and all these memories pop up on Christmas Day of all these wonderful locations where we went. And I was at first kind of feeling sorry for myself because it did get a little chilly. There's a blizzard watch out here etc which you know we've had beautiful weather i have to say in that rocky mountain region but um i was kind of weighing all that but i had we had weighed you know how many trips we're taking and even though they're not quite as like you know salt lake city to me isn't quite like the keys but they are still destinations that if we're going to support we're going to support our kids We like to go together if possible or take another kid with us if possible to watch and support whichever kid is playing. And so we decided, we weighed everything and decided it probably would be better just to stay put this Christmas vacation than to put a lot of our financial eggs in that tropical basket.
SPEAKER 05 :
Yeah, well, and it's great because these are great memories you're building and great opportunities. And You know, there's something wonderful about everywhere. Some of the trips we have to take are, you know, you fly somewhere and then you get in the car and it's a road trip, and you stop at these little tiny out-of-the-way places. I always like to ask somebody in the gas station or the diner, what's the coolest thing in your town? Or who's the neatest person that lives here? And I've actually gone to meet some of these people. I remember when I first started, you know, the oldest surviving... World War Two veteran from the state lived over here on this block. And I went and met the guy or, you know, different people, you know, that I met a woman who had worked for the Ringling Brothers Circus for her whole life, you know, and she was, you know, and you and every little town has something that's really pretty cool. And and it's just fun to show interest in what they do and then experience it. But, you know, I used to be a road warrior. I'd fly in somewhere, make my speech or have my meeting and get out of there. And now every time I go somewhere, I try to find at least one thing like. You know, if I'm going to be here, what's the one thing I want to try to do or go to or whatever the case may be?
SPEAKER 03 :
Any cool things that you – because I'm the one that always wants to stop for the world's largest ball of swine – or twine. Swine. Yeah, the largest swine. The world's largest ball of twine or, like, outside of Palm Springs, we stopped at the dinosaur gift shop where the dinosaur gift shop was located in the stomach of the dinosaur with the big window you could peek out of. Yeah. Hello, I've got to go in there. Anything really cool, people you've met or things you've seen in some of the cities? I know you go to San Diego a fair amount, but any cool things in the last decade or so?
SPEAKER 05 :
Yeah, I gave a speech in Salt Lake once. Since you mentioned it, it always makes me think. We had about an hour and a half before I had to head to the airport. So I had the driver, I said, take us by the tabernacle, the temple there. And we did. And the gate was open. So we walked in like we knew what we were doing. And said, and the choir was practicing. And wow, that was an amazing thing in that place. And then a young lady came over and she is, uh, you know, doing her one year of mission service and she takes people on tour. So she took me and my driver and my assistant, the three of us on a tour, this whole place, just the three of us, you know, and it was just an amazing experience to, to go through that through her eyes and how she felt about it, because this is her mission. And Then we got back to the car and I, you know, I was going to slip her some money for, you know, and she said, well, no, I can't take that. I said, well, no, it's for the it's for the church. She said, well, if you're not a member of our church, we we we won't we don't take your money. And I thought, wow, I grew up in the Baptist church. We it's hard to imagine we wouldn't take your money. But, you know, that was just an amazing experience I had there. Once I was in New York and I was walking down the street there and and there's a little side door coming out of this place. The guy was actually sweeping up and we were asking him how to get somewhere. And I said, what is this building? He said, well, this is the back of Carnegie hall. I said, you're kidding. Can I walk in there? So we got to go in Carnegie hall and stand on the stage and do the whole deal. It was empty, but it was just amazing thing. You know, that this guy was just sweeping out the back of Carnegie hall. And yeah, there, there, there's different things everywhere.
SPEAKER 03 :
You know, um, I think about going there as well. And we stay so close because they play right down in that downtown area. And they've been working on the main temple there. I think that one that was built, oh gosh, some of them were built in the 1800s, some of the buildings. And they keep the organ in like a dome. That really was quite an architectural feat at the time. To me, it still looks like quite an architectural feat. And I think it has one of the top organs in the world. And so I got to listen to them play that. And it was pretty mind-blowing. So maybe I'll take some more tours while I'm there this time if they've done some of the refurbishments they've been working on. All right, Jim. JimStoval.com. Always a pleasure, my friend. Thank you.
SPEAKER 05 :
And to you.
SPEAKER 04 :
Kiowa is listening to the mighty 670 KLT.
SPEAKER 02 :
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SPEAKER 03 :
Hello, it's the Good News with Angie Austin and Grace Fox. Today we're talking about her book, Fresh Hope for Today, Devotions for Joy on the Journey. And we're going to talk about the topic, Good from Pain, which doesn't sound like good news, but it's a pretty interesting story. But Grace, welcome. Let's talk about Christmas. So what did you do with your family? How did that all go?
SPEAKER 04 :
Yeah, so my daughters came with their husbands and the children. And I had a nephew and his wife as well joined us at an Airbnb in Washington that we rented. So we're really close to the U.S. border. And it was like a 45-minute drive. It was all down across the border into this Airbnb. And it was big enough for everybody. It was wonderful. So we celebrated from last week, Thursday, until Sunday. Yeah, Christmas Eve morning, we had to be out. So we went our separate ways to celebrate with other family members, too. So it was good. It was great. Lots of cuddles with grandkids.
SPEAKER 03 :
How many grandkids and, like, what age range was it?
SPEAKER 04 :
Well, I only had the three there. So I do have 13 altogether. The oldest will be 16 this week, actually. But I had the three. Wow. This would have been a four-year-old and a two-and-a-half-year-old and a six-month-old.
SPEAKER 03 :
Oh, wow. Little ones. And then your nephew, did he bring family with him too?
SPEAKER 04 :
Just his wife. They don't have children yet. So it was good being with them as well. She just became a Canadian citizen. She's from Argentina originally, his wife. And so it's great being able to be family for her. She has no living family. She was orphaned and had no siblings, no aunts and uncles. And so we are her family and it's been wonderful to just bring her in and and include her as one of us. We just love her.
SPEAKER 03 :
You know, I was thinking about if there is a family that someone could be included in, how wonderful, because I thought your nephew, of course he wants to be with your family, because you guys are so great, and how wonderful for the daughter, well, his wife, I was going to say daughter-in-law, but it's not quite, but to be included in a family like yours, especially in a situation where she's not in her native country, and then she doesn't have family, I mean, what a blessing.
SPEAKER 04 :
Well, she is almost like a daughter to me now. And last night we were together with them again for dinner. And we had a prayer time together. And she just thanked the Lord for our family and for being able to be included as a part of that. And she is a gift to us. That's how we feel about her.
SPEAKER 03 :
You know, I didn't, as you know, have the greatest, the best childhood. So I was really excited to really be included in a family that, you know, thought I was great and really included me. And I would say my father-in-law does feel that way about me. But, you know, he's been married for 60 years. So he and his wife have to travel closely in their circles of how they relate to people. And she kind of runs the show because she just isn't interested in, unless it's a big deal, you know. So she let me know while she, and I definitely wasn't welcome the first 10 years. She didn't even like, didn't hide that she didn't even like me. And so I was like disappointed, like, oh, I get this crummy family growing up. And then, you know, I don't even marry into a family that likes me, even though they're great to the kids. And in fact, one time when she didn't talk to us for a year, I went ahead and called and apologized just because, I thought, well, this will be better for my kids to have their grandparents because they really are wonderful to my kids and my husband, of course. But this time and she likes me now because she sees how well the kids are turning out and this, that and the other and the other son's divorce. So I'm really the only daughter in law. I am the only daughter in law now. um that they see and so this time uh she's done this to me a lot over the years she said well we're gonna go do such and such and we're gonna do this and that she knows i like to do all the activities because i just like to go out and about and i enjoy my father-in-law we take walks together and stuff and she said now you're not invited and i don't want you to take it personally but you're not invited you just want to spend time with kids well boss and then my husband calls grandpa i call him gramps My husband calls and he's like, oh, I'm going to take a, you know, get off work early. So I'll go down and meet you there at the mall and do lunch with you and all of that. So when he hung up, I said, did you let him know he wasn't invited? And they just stared at me because of course, you know, he's invited. And, um, and then grandma goes, well, you know, I don't, I said, don't worry, grandma. I said, I'm used to you not inviting me. I said, but grandpa always invites me, you know, cause if like I made a big stink out of it, grandma, grandpa would say, cause she'll say sometimes there's no room in the car, which seats eight. And I'm like, okay. Of course, there's room in the car, but it's like this flimsy, you know, excuse. But I'm so used to it now that it really doesn't bother me. And I kind of just I've accepted how she is. And so I don't feel like horrible like I used to. And I know she loves me in her own way as best she can. She's pretty decent to me and he's great. But that's why I think I thought so much of your nephew's wife and how great that this wonderful family that God's given her this gift and you feel the same way about her. I think that's why it hit me more how great. I mean, who wouldn't want to be part of your family? Are you kidding me?
SPEAKER 04 :
No, we're certainly not perfect, but we try.
SPEAKER 03 :
And then when you came back to Canada, did you do anything with any other family members? Because I know you guys love creating memories. And obviously, since you and your husband both work in ministry and you're a Christian author, this is a very important time of year for you.
SPEAKER 04 :
Well, we just had Christmas Eve on our own. Because truth be told, Gene came back with a really bad head cold. And so he is just recovering from that now. So we had Christmas Eve quiet and then Christmas Day morning. And most of the day was pretty quiet, too. But then we went and joined our nephew and his wife for dinner. And my daughter and her husband are actually staying at their house, too, because the boat's just kind of small with them and a dog coming on board. Oh, wow. So they have a guest. a guest room at that apartment and they're staying there. So we joined them for supper last night and had games again and prayer time.
SPEAKER 03 :
Oh, I love the games. It's fun. Maybe we'll do some of that tonight. We actually, I did something unusual. We did go to my neighbor's house. She includes us with family. So we were there with all of her family and she's like a sister to me. So we go to a lot of their family gatherings and The husband's Greek and she's Persian. So the food's like amazing. And then grandma from Iran, you know, she makes some great dish and the food is just... And then Uncle Chris, he runs a Greek restaurant. So, you know, the food's just so good. But they're so used to us now that we even got invited to the next night to Christmas dessert at a different relative's house that, you know... And we've just gotten to know through me being at their family's house all the time. But we did something we've never done before because they're older. And we booked tickets to a movie. And we went to the movie Boys on the Boat. And it's about just after the Depression, this team of... really poor kids from the University of Washington in Seattle, and how one of them couldn't even afford college. And it was very true to life. It's based on a true story. He didn't really have money to pay his college bills, and he was sleeping in a car, and he'd been abandoned first at 10 by his family, and then he was abandoned again at 15. So at 10, he slept in a one-room schoolhouse, and then his stepmother, the dad, said, we've got to let They had four of their own kids and this was the one kid from the mom that had passed away. And so he said, we've got to let him back in the house. So 10 to 11, he lived in the one room schoolhouse and then he moved back in until maybe 14. And then they left again. They just left for a better life because, you know, That was just after the end of the depression. And so they were just starving. So they moved the whole family and left him behind. He said he just watched the tail lights go away. So he became an engineer, worked for Boeing for 35 years, and he was on this rowing team. And they hadn't been rowers. You know, the rich teams are from the East Coast, like Princeton and Harvard, because these kids had been rowing since they were little and had money. He did it so he'd have food and they'd pay for his college education. And it was fascinating. They won the Olympics and I think it was 36, 1936. And so I was, I don't, it was really inspirational. So it was something we wouldn't normally do, but my kids being older, I just thought it might be something we could all do together. And it was really, it was neat. And it could differ.
SPEAKER 04 :
Yeah, that sounds like a good one.
SPEAKER 03 :
A different way to spend Christmas.
SPEAKER 04 :
It sounds like a really good movie.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah.
SPEAKER 04 :
It's a different kind of tradition.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, the director is George Clooney. But, of course, then we went to Christmas Eve service, which I have to tell you, it was so moving. And, oh, my goodness, I just... Joe Rance, by the way, if you want to look him up, Joe Rance with an R. That's the name of the guy. I think you'd get a kick out of the movie. It's so good. All right, so we have time for you to tell your story. We've talked so much about Christmas. Good from pain in Fresh Hope for Today. This is interesting because we all want to help people get out of pain or protect our kids from pain, but it's not always good.
SPEAKER 04 :
No, because sometimes we get in the way. We don't want our children to hurt. We don't want to hurt, right? So everybody just wants to get out of suffering as fast as possible. But there's that story of a man who noticed a butterfly struggling to emerge from this teeny hole in the cocoon. And so he's watching this butterfly struggle. struggle, wiggled its way out, but he felt sorry for it. And he thought the butterfly was stuck and needed help. So he physically took and opened up that little hole a little bit more. And when the butterfly appeared, it wasn't ready to fly then. Like its wings were shriveled and it had a swollen body. But he didn't understand that trying to get through that hole was a part of the butterfly's preparation to take wing and fly. And so he actually hurt the butterfly. Didn't mean to, of course, but he hurt it. And sometimes we can hurt our kids by trying to spare them the consequences of their choices, perhaps. Or, you know, if they make a bad choice, they get into trouble with somebody, even the law, and then we go in and try to make excuses and try to bail them out and all that. Sometimes we do more damage than good. And so we have to be really careful.
SPEAKER 03 :
I think about parents, you know, always trying to bubble wrap their kids and keep them out of, there's a couple, you know, moms I know through sports, this, that, and the other that really intervene where, you know, they shouldn't be getting involved. I only did it once. And I think the case where I intervened was appropriate, but it ended up not working well. And so I don't get involved anymore because this kind of severed our friendship we had in the neighborhood, not with the kids. The kids were fine. But with the mom that, you know, her phone was used to send my daughter, my little girl. So not even like, you know, she's friends with the older kids. But someone used her phone to basically send my little girl this horrible message, the person flipping the finger at her and saying yucky things. And so I called the mom and said, you know, your daughter allowed her phone to be used for this really yucky message. And it wasn't received well. And I know it wasn't from her daughter, but she did allow her phone to be used for this nefarious, I believed, you know, text message against a younger kid. So I just learned, like, just stay out of it. Like, the kids are all fine. My daughter's watching their dogs while they're out of town. And, you know, but I think we don't get invited over anymore for things and this, that and the other because I got involved and I really learned my lesson. But I see so many people do it and it's not really helpful because they're not learning lessons when...
SPEAKER 04 :
there are no consequences for their behavior well that that's true and it goes beyond kids too it's not just from parents trying to save kids from pain but we we as adults often want to run away from a painful situation as well so say we're in a job that's hard because co-workers are prickly people or whatever and We're not perfect either, right? So we might be contributing to tension in the office space. But if we just quit the job and kick off and go find a better job or easier people to work with, or so we think, we might be robbing ourselves of a valuable lesson because pain can teach us perseverance and it teaches us patience with other people. But who wants to be in pain, right? So we cut the strings and run. Yeah. And I think that's not always the best thing to do.
SPEAKER 03 :
And I think that that pain of like even if it's just the irritation of studying or working on a project, all of those things, that pain, that's what gets us to the good stuff, the promotion, making more money. a college degree. And if we avoid all of that, you know, we don't want to end up working 7-11. Not that that might, you know, not be a bad temporary job on the way up the corporate ladder or in college, but that's not, you don't want to be stuck somewhere forever where you are limited in, you know, your ability to provide for your family. And so I just liked this. Again, it is fresh hope for today. Devotions for joy in the journey. And this one is good from pain. Gracefox.com. Thank you, my friend.
SPEAKER 04 :
You bet. We'll talk to you again.
SPEAKER 03 :
All right. Thank you.
SPEAKER 01 :
Thank you for listening to The Good News with Angie Austin on AM670 KLTT.
In this heartwarming episode, Angie Austin reconnects with Margie and Don Cook, founders of Hands On Houses. This nonprofit organization emerged as a heartfelt mission during the Cook's retirement, focusing on building homes for widows in impoverished areas such as Southeast India, Nepal, and Africa. Despite their advanced age, Margie and Don have crafted a legacy of love, providing safety, dignity, and hope for the future to hundreds of women who once lived in perilous conditions. Listeners learn about their personal journey and what fuels their relentless passion for helping others.
SPEAKER 02 :
Welcome to the good news with Angie Austin. Now with the good news, here's Angie.
SPEAKER 05 :
Hello friend, Angie Austin here with the Good News. Well, I'm really excited about my next two guests because they were on my show, I don't know, 10, 12 years ago. It's been a long time. Their organization, their nonprofit is called Hands On Houses and it's Margie and Don Cook. And after they retired many years ago, they started a nonprofit building houses and you'll find out exactly who they're building them for. It's such a wonderful organization. Welcome Margie and Don.
SPEAKER 03 :
Thank you, Angie. So nice to reconnect with you.
SPEAKER 04 :
All the people listening to you.
SPEAKER 05 :
Well, you know, Don and Margie, I've been following you over, you know, over a decade now, ever since you came on the show. So, you know, Margie, why don't you start and tell us, you know, about your journey after retirement and about this organization you started. And then Don will move to you and get into the specifics of how you've gone about doing this. So go ahead, Margie.
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, I'm 75 now and John's 78, and we're never going to retire. So in 2007, we felt the Lord calling us to go out to build houses for widows in southeast India. And we started just with going out with two suitcases each, not knowing where we personally would stay, but knowing that we had a pastor to work with. And we started building suitcases. slowly in the very, very poor villages, mainly for widows. And our organization didn't even have a name in those days, but now it's called Hands on Houses. And up to date, we have built just under four, about 460 houses, mainly for widows all over India. Now we've expanded. God has opened many doors to us. We're building in Nepal and Sri Lanka. We're building in Zambia and Africa and El Salvador in South America. And we just keep walking through the doors that God opens for us. And he's so faithful. He's just. continue to expand the work. And there are more and more widows who are so grateful to have a home that they thought they would never, ever have.
SPEAKER 05 :
And I want to talk to people a little bit about the circumstances in which they live. So handsonhouses.com if you want to donate, get more info. And I know, Don, you've improved the process and how you build these little homes. And can you talk to me, Don, a little bit about how widows live or are treated, what happens to them in society when they do lose their husband, and how many of these women were living before you built them a house?
SPEAKER 04 :
Yeah, Angie, it's quite shocking in the way that widows have had to survive in India. There was a time, probably about 300 years ago, when widows were required to die with their husbands, you know, when their husband was cremated, they would, they would be put on the funeral pyre with him. Um, so there's a, there's, there's just a real antagonism towards widows in India and in many other parts of the world too, but in India has been the worst. Um, the, uh, they're seen as carriers of bad luck and, um, people don't really welcome them in their communities. They're sort of required to stay out of sight and wear clothes that represent the mourning, you know, that they're mourning for their husbands. So it's really, it's a very sad tale. What has happened, though, is that Christianity has been spreading through India for many years, and that whole attitude has been moderated, but the The widows are still not expected to remarry. In the 17 years that we've been involved in India, we've come across two ladies who were well-educated and were in a position to get remarried. But generally, the system in India is that I think 90% at least of the marriages are arranged. And the arranged marriages usually have to fit in with the caste system, which is a very, I don't know whether I should discuss that a bit more, but not really. But it's just, in a nutshell, widows have really, really had a hard time in India for a long time. So we felt, sorry. No, no, you carry on, Don. So when we went out to India in 2007, we actually thought we would build houses for people that had lost houses during the tsunami that had hit Banda Aceh in Indonesia and a lot of that area. But somebody, I don't even remember who it was, could have called me almost anonymously and advised me not to get involved with the uh disaster relief in the tsunami hit areas and the a friend of ours who was showing us around took me to some of the villages and he told me that he'd been trying to help the tsunami victims by putting you know giving them rice and and helping them whatever way he could and he found that they were not giving any rights to the widows in their communities. And when we asked him, he said, yeah, he said, they said, the leaders have said, look, we just don't really want them here. We wish they'd leave and go and stay somewhere else. So that's been, that was what triggered our decision to focus on widows as far as possible. So I'd been working, I'd actually, I taught chemical engineering for 20 years and then sort of took an early retirement to get involved in a project in a way. But I was impressed by an Indonesian man who'd found that by using appropriate technology, it opened doors to villages where he'd previously been warned to get out and stay away and don't come back sort of thing. But he'd worked out... how to use biogas and a few other sort of pumping systems and found that people were just begging him to come to the villages and help. So that's what sort of inspired me. I thought, well, I've got a technical background. My father had been in construction. So I thought, well, maybe we could start making cement out of seawater, which is quite a long story. But a friend of mine, said, look, you know, there's just been this tsunami. People are going to need houses. Stop talking about cement. Get out there and start building houses. So that's really what we ended up doing.
SPEAKER 05 :
You know, it's so shocking to me. Like, I knew that they were treated poorly from our interview, you know, over a decade ago. And I've been following your journey and over 400 houses built now. But I didn't realize you started because you found out after the tsunami that they didn't want to even give rice to the widows. And that I know they were living outside or under like they'd make, you know, some kind of a makeshift lean-to with, you know, leaves on top and everything. You know, of course, there's a lot of rain. And so they'd have to rebuild their little lean to and they basically were just living in a manner which was not healthy or at all comfortable. And, you know, basically dangerous that these women were barely surviving. And so, you know, following some of the stories, I'm sure both of you have some. you know special ones but Margie do you want to tell me one or two stories about some of the women you help and by the way again these aren't big fancy houses it might be as big as your walk-in closet at home but to these widows it is life-changing so tell us about some of the people you've helped that they all of course are special stories but any that really stuck in your mind yes it is amazing because so many of them living are living in a car shed or they've got a
SPEAKER 03 :
they don't have proper walls and they go to sleep at night we had one woman who we built a house for and when we went to see the house that had been built she was there praising God and saying thank you thank you thank you Jesus for giving me a house because I used to have to go to sleep in a car shed at night and there were no doors that could be closed this is all through translation And she was constantly afraid of snakes coming in and biting her during the night because she didn't have a house where she could close the door and know that she could sleep safely. So that was one story that touched my heart because I just felt, I can't imagine going to bed at night and not being able to rest peacefully. And she couldn't do that. And she's one of many widows like that. We've built falls. Young widows, you know, there's a high proportion of suicide rates amongst husbands. And I remember one widow we built for a few years back, she was pregnant with her third child and her husband committed suicide. And she had these two little children and we were introduced to her and the pastor we were working with at the time wanted to build her a house. She was 23 years. She's probably never going to get married again because of the culture. And she had these two children and another one on the way. And we've subsequently seen her and seen her husband. She's just so grateful because her children will grow up in a safe environment. They'll probably do better academically at school. And then when she's in her old age, they'll probably care for her because there's no insurance there for parents. People in villages, they live from day to day, and their children are their insurance that will look after them when they're older. So it goes from one generation to the next, Angie. It's quite amazing. It's not just something that's going to look after a widow for.
SPEAKER 05 :
a few years you know can affect her life and her children yeah from 23 on her whole life like you said probably not remarrying which is unheard of and you know in in the in the states and uh where you're from as well now a car a car shed is that like a carport in america where it's just a roof with like you know four sticks to balance the roof and it's not enclosed
SPEAKER 03 :
Angie, that's my accent. It's a cow. K-C-O-W. Cow.
SPEAKER 05 :
Oh, shit. Okay. Sorry. I thought it was like a carport. Oh, goodness. No. Margie and Don, your whole family has gotten involved with you. Your kids are also Christians. Tell us about that. Before we take a break, we have about two minutes. Tell us about your family getting involved.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yes. Our oldest son, Andy, and his wife, Carla, joined our team about 12 years ago lived in India with us for three years and they're now living they've been in Hawaii for a while they're now living on the US mainland with their three children and Andy does a lot of the work he manages with different projects he's our accountant Carla is a graphic designer she designs all our books that we send out and cards that we do and our website and So they've been part of our team for, as I said, 12 years, and it's wonderful to have them on board. And then our other children have introduced us to partners in different parts of the world. Zambia came through one younger daughter recently after teaching in South Korea for 10 years. She and her family have relocated to Kenya, and we will be visiting them in February, hoping to find some partners in Kenya, East Africa, Central East Africa, And our youngest son has also done a lot of introducing. So our family's all been involved at different levels.
SPEAKER 04 :
And we started off with us. Go ahead, Don. No, you carry on. Okay, thanks. So when we started off, our youngest son decided he was going to bring three or four of his friends to come and help us. And he came out and spent time with us. And our two daughters have also been out with their husbands. And so it's been a It's been a very sort of we've been very encouraged by our children. Our children have been incredibly supportive of what we've done. And, you know, in looking back, it's amazing what they've done to help us and how so many people have helped us. It's really been a sort of a. of seeing the body of Christ come to life and just to where we've just been so blessed by so many people and helped and guided. And so it's been a wonderful story, Angie.
SPEAKER 05 :
I want to... I want to hear more. Hold on. Keep that thought last year, Margie. The website is handsonhouses.com. We're going to take a break. Again, it's handsonhouses.com. If you can get there to their locations, you can help volunteer. But there's also a donation button there and a lot more about the work they do. We'll be right back with Margie and Don Cook. And the nonprofit is handsonhouses.com. We'll be right back.
SPEAKER 01 :
Arc Thrift has all your winter needs. You will find a variety of gently used and new items ranging from personalized Christmas gifts to ski clothes and exercise equipment, including tons of winter clothing to bundle up in. There's no need to spend hundreds of dollars on clothes or household furnishings when you can go to Arc Thrift. They have sales every weekend, and you can find almost everything you need at any of their stores. You might discover that hidden gem or snazzy one-of-a-kind jacket you can't find anywhere else. They also have a new store in Littleton at 7951 South Broadway. It is their new hidden treasure with quality items everywhere throughout the store. Buying from ARK gives back to your community. And ARK always needs new donations. So find one of their donation centers or stores and make sure to shop the store once you donate. To find the nearest ARK Thrift near you, go to ARKthrift.com.
SPEAKER 05 :
Flagler is tuned to the mighty 670 KLT Denver. Welcome back to The Good News. Angie Austin here with Margie and Don Cook. And we are talking about their nonprofit Hands on Houses. After they retired, well over a decade ago, they started building houses for widows. They were in India at that time, and they wanted to help out people after the tsunami. But they heard that widows weren't even getting rice when the rice was being handed out to people in need. And then they found out that they were really left behind. behind, that many of them didn't have homes, that the majority of them don't remarry, and that they're really living in an extreme situation of poverty. And so, Margie, let's pick up where we left off. You were saying?
SPEAKER 03 :
We were just talking about how our whole family has been involved with us, our four children, our children-in-law. And then last year, we had the wonderful opportunity and privilege of having our oldest grandchild, Max, come out. And he helped paint a house and watched a house being built. And he was with us with his father, Andy, for two weeks. And he was eight at the time. He's now 10. He was nearly nine, actually. But it was just such a joy to have one of the next generation come out and actually see what we're doing and be part of it. So, you know, it's been a family affair, Angie.
SPEAKER 05 :
Don, I remember asking you and Margie, like, you know, you could be like you mentioned one of your kids moving to Hawaii after they worked with you and now living on the mainland U.S. And I said you could be sitting on the beach in Hawaii. But you really felt led after your retirement to start building these homes across the world for these widows who've been, you know, just really set off to die. And so explain what led you to feel, you know, what was the calling all about for you and Margie?
SPEAKER 04 :
As I said, I've taught engineering for 20 years, and I really felt that, you know, I should use my technical knowledge as a way to reach people with the love of Jesus, you know. So I I had these plans for, as I said earlier, making cement, but then I also had plans for making a type of house that could go up quickly and that would, you know, hopefully start meeting the needs of so many people as quickly as we could. So that was what sort of encouraged us to go out and use the gift of a house as a platform for presenting the love of Jesus to people who need to know about that. And so So our motivation is really to spread the gospel, but it's just using technology and the gift of a house as a way of opening the door to people asking the questions, you know, the sort of questions. Why are we doing this? And so. There's some other questions that we've had difficulty answering. We were watching a house being built once, and one of the neighbors came up to me and said, so tell me, what can Jesus do for me? So those are the sort of things we've had to deal with. And it's been very interesting just having some sort of idea of what the culture is like and what people have, you know, what their sort of impression of Jesus is and that sort of thing. But the purpose is to use technology, to use some sort of ability that we have to reach people with the love of Jesus.
SPEAKER 05 :
And the process, I know, even back when I talked to you like 10 years or more ago, you mentioned that your process had improved from maybe a wooden lean-to kind of structure. And again, these are not fancy houses. They're like an oversized closet in some cases. But your techniques improved and you were building more and building them quickly and less expensively. Talk a little bit about that because I know your engineering mind can't wait to tell me about that.
SPEAKER 04 :
Yeah, Angie, it's interesting. When we started off, I had this design that involved making concrete panels and tipping them up and then putting a cement roof on top of that. But I found that just through a whole lot of trial and error that we actually ended up with houses that we felt... were not as good as the houses that people would have preferred to get and so most of our houses uh towards you know in the last 10 years that we were in india were built out of cinder blocks with a sheet metal roof that was guaranteed to last at least 20 years so so i had to sort of um what actually happened was when our son andrew decided to join us he said to us looked at you know, you're experimenting with all these different houses, but we're only building about 10 houses a year. So why don't you consider sort of laying your research and development aside for a while and let's focus on production. So that's what we did. We ended up going from 10 houses a year to 30 houses a year, just using the normal construction techniques that the local people knew. What we discovered or what we sort of realized after a while was that we didn't really want to build our houses quickly. Initially, we thought, well, you know, it'd be great if we could build a house that could go up in a day or a week and then, you know, we'd be able to build so many more houses that way. But our purpose is really to use that time that we have where the people that are receiving the houses and the neighbors who are receiving houses or watching going on can interact with the people who are doing the construction who are all Christians and some of them are using their construction jobs as tent making to keep themselves going while they focus on developing little churches in the area. So It's interesting that we decided, we realized that we actually want to spend a bit more time on the construction than just to go in there, build a house and get out.
SPEAKER 05 :
So you can kind of spread the word of the Lord while they're building.
SPEAKER 04 :
Exactly. Yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER 05 :
That is so neat. Now, Margie, I want you to tell me, that's interesting that it went to now more labor intensive so you could talk about Jesus. Margie, tell me how people have volunteered with you. You mentioned how your kids got involved. And so tell me a little bit about that.
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, initially we had a team that came out with our younger sons. from his university and they helped us for the first month and got the project going really quickly, which we were so grateful for. And then subsequently we've had teams come up from mainly from YWAM. Are you familiar with YWAM Angie?
SPEAKER 05 :
No, no, no, I'm not.
SPEAKER 03 :
It's a, it's a very big missions organization internationally. They train young people. to go out and take the gospel using different methods. They use all sorts of things. It might be health-orientated. It might be creative arts. It might be all sorts of different ways, and they're constantly training up people. And their main university is the University of the Nations in Hawaii, and that's what we were connected with. And so we have many friends there, and they've sent teams of about 12, 13 young people to us In the early days, we had quite a lot of teams coming out. We've had volunteers over the years. We've had young people come. We've had older people come. And so that's what people have done as they've come out. Sometimes they've spent a week. Sometimes they've spent a month. It just depends. In fact, we had one young man who came out for a couple of months, and we rented a house next door for him. So that's how people have helped us on the ground. And otherwise, I have a team of prayer people who pray constantly for us. And I know that without prayer, we could never do what we're doing. And then we have people who don't want to come, but they're happy to donate. So, you know, it's a sort of many-faceted thing. support group all around.
SPEAKER 04 :
Just an interesting story. We had a young guy, a Polish lad who heard our radio interview in Dublin, Ireland and asked if he could come out and then we discovered that it was part of his honeymoon where he and his wife came and painted a house in one of the villages and Quite interesting. And then afterwards, they said it was the highlight of their honeymoon.
SPEAKER 05 :
Oh, that is so neat. Yeah, what do they say? The best way to get out of yourself if you're not feeling so great, or if you are feeling great, is to do something for others. So how has this impacted you? Your life, Margie or Don, whoever wants to answer this one or both of you, how has this impacted your, and I'm using air quotes, retirement? That's pretty funny. You never really retired.
SPEAKER 03 :
It's funny, Angie. You know, we were just such a normal, ordinary South African couple living in the Cape Town area at the tip of Africa. We never think we would ever move. And so I think God just called us out of our easy environment, and we spent 10 years in Hawaii, and then it's been 17 years in India. And it's just given us such a greater perception, I think, of who God is and what he does and how he wants to use you if you're open to that. And the world is one's oyster. You know, if you prepare to go, you know, there's that scripture in Isaiah about Who will I send? Who will go? And we used to sing that song back in South Africa, not really knowing that we were opening ourselves up to God sending us somewhere. And just the fact that we've had the opportunity to go and to do and to be what God's wanting us to be has just enriched our lives incredibly. We've met so many amazing, wonderful people. And we've just had so much interface with all sorts of people all over this world and we would never have ever imagined that when we were young living as i said in an easy life and just raising our kids in the local community in church and greater family you know so we're just so grateful that um you know god has just opened doors to us and held our hand as we've walked through. You're so faithful, Angie.
SPEAKER 04 :
Go ahead, Dylan, go ahead. I just look back and think whether the last 17 years haven't been the most exciting years of our lives so far, you know, because people have often said to us, oh, it must have been terrible having to sacrifice so much and go out and work in the villages there, but It's been an incredible time. It's just been exciting. It's been just full of the Lord. It's just been one of those things where there's never been a dull moment. And we've just seen so many amazing ways in which the Lord's faithfulness and the Lord's Your presence has just been, you know, sort of addictive. So we've been having fun and, you know, it's been great.
SPEAKER 05 :
You know, and in following you, you didn't, you know, you had a place to live. But there were times when it was also rather makeshift as well. You weren't living high on the hog while you were building these houses for widows in these neighborhoods. you know, little villages. So, you know, you've made sacrifices too. You didn't have that quote-unquote comfortable life maybe that you had when you were in South Africa raising your family and Don was working as an engineer. But what a great thing to do, you know, for the Lord as a team, you know, the two of you together and then joining your family in. And I want to make sure that people can get information. The website is handsonhouses.com, handsonhouses.com. And as Margie and Don Cook mentioned, they're building houses in other locations as well. You can find out more about them and their family and their support staff, the builders and what they're doing for the widows. God bless you both. And what a privilege to have you on the program again.
SPEAKER 04 :
Thank you, Angie. It's so wonderful to talk to you again, Angie. It is wonderful. You too. Bless you, Angie.
SPEAKER 05 :
Bless you too. HandsOnHouses.com. Thanks, guys.
SPEAKER 02 :
Thank you for listening to The Good News with Angie Austin on AM670 KLTT.
Dive into the profound insights shared by Angie Austin and Jim Stovall in this episode of The Good News. The duo discusses the significance of companionship, drawing from the extensive findings of the Harvard Study on happiness. Discover why lasting happiness is tied to meaningful relationships, and learn how social fitness and volunteer work can enhance your life and that of those around you. Through a heartfelt conversation, Angie shares personal anecdotes and a revelation about her daughter's compassion, shedding light on the complex dynamics of friendships and family ties. Jim contributes his wisdom on the unsuspected impact of the people we surround ourselves with, urging listeners to evaluate their social circles. This episode underscores the importance of nurturing connections and creating valuable experiences over accumulating material wealth. Listeners will also benefit from a profound discussion on unconditional love and its implications within familial relationships. The episode concludes with practical advice and resources for fostering healthier relationships with children, highlighting ways to address subconscious influences on behavior and building a home grounded in love. Tend to these insights and find out how to enrich your life's journeys with heartfelt experiences and enduring companionship.
SPEAKER 01 :
Welcome to The Good News with Angie Austin. Now, with The Good News, here's Angie.
SPEAKER 02 :
Hey there, it's Angie Austin and Jim Stovall with The Good News, and we are talking about companionship, and what a great time of year to talk about that, as many of us will have extra companionship with Christmas and New Year's, et cetera. I know we're traveling, so we'll be with additional family and many people having family come to them. Hey, Jim, what's this all about, companionship?
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, it's based on one of your and my favorite things, the Harvard study. And the research goes back 75 years, multi-generational. It's the most significant and wide-sweeping human behavior study ever done. And what they were trying to find is what makes people happy. And they were looking, does money make you happy? Does fame make you happy? All these various things. And what they found was the thing that makes us most happy long-term are good quality long-term relationships or companionship. And that's what really makes us happy. Money beyond just making a living and providing your necessities really doesn't make you happy. And fame actually long-term has been shown to be something that makes us unhappy. But friends, family, good quality companionship is what really makes the difference.
SPEAKER 02 :
And, you know, when I was reading this, again, the everyday, a little bit more in depth, you know, they talk about, you know, social fitness. And part of what goes into that, that you have talked to me about over the years is, you know, like I say, somebody's feeling down. You're like, if you're feeling down, the best way to feel better is to do something for someone else. And part of this Harvard happiness study kind of relates back to interactions with others, including volunteer work. And, you know,
SPEAKER 03 :
interacting with your society and creating connections of value where you may doing good things for uh for others yeah you know we need to realize that everyone in our lives either makes a deposit or emotionally makes a withdrawal in our account but if we want to build up ourselves and take control of that all we need to do is do something for someone else and it's you know certainly you can volunteer or take a part-time job and help others but many times it's as simple as uh dropping someone a card, making a phone call, simply just being kind to someone, that there was really no reason to do it. And these are the people that can really make a difference for us while we're serving them. It's interesting. We find what we need at the point of fulfilling someone else's need.
SPEAKER 02 :
Yeah, yeah. And that's something I've talked about lately, you know, with my kids getting older, you know, what's the next thing, you know, I'll do, like you said, maybe take a part-time job or, you know, volunteer. And what else are you teaching us in the column this week?
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, we need to realize, too, that, you know, when we look at the quality people, the people that are going to be in our inner circle, you know, we need to be cautious. You know, we become like the five people we spend the most time with. And, you In my Words That Shaped Our World book series, we've looked at all these famous people and the things they said, and then the researchers have brought me these things. Here's some wonderful sayings from people that are unknown. If they did anything else in their life, we're not aware of it, but they said something. And there was a guy named John... Vincenzo Ravina, and he lived several hundred years ago. And all we happen to know about him is he said, a boar is someone that deprives us of solitude without giving us any companionship. And you know, you and I have always been around people like that. There are people that just, they take up space and they take up our energy, but they really don't feed our souls. Now you can help these people or you can serve them in some way or volunteer, but But if you're going to look at the people you spend your quality, consistent time with, it needs to be someone that is significant, that has those things you want to be like. And, of course, in my case, it starts with marrying your best friend. If you can find that at home, man, if you wake up with that every day, that is the greatest way to start.
SPEAKER 02 :
I know, I love it when you talk about Crystal because you can tell how happy you are with her and your relationship is. So yeah, I'm with you on that one. Definitely marrying your best friend. As I've been doing all this research on the happiness study, because I'm like, there's got to be more to it than just like having good friends. But one of the articles I read had to do with doing like an x-ray of your relationships to make sure that it has some of the positive components. And with the teenagers that slept over at our house last night, it was so loud and we were... in the living room and they were laughing and doing whatever but there was a friend in the group and it had been these four girls and that third girl tried to pair off a few of the girls and just have one best friend and that happened for like a year and it wasn't my daughter that was uh she was ditched and then another girl that was there was ditched So finally, everybody ended up ditching her because it was very caustic. I called it emotional blackmail. If you don't follow my rules, then I will punish you. If you don't do something with me on a certain night, then I'm not going to speak to you. If you don't invite me to have dinner with your family, then I'm going to ignore you in the halls the next day. So I was explaining to the girls it's a form of emotional blackmail. And this particular girl had been quite mean to my daughter on her volleyball team this season, really making sure she was excluded. And I couldn't believe my kid, even though all that was going down, she was voted like the most, the coach said she was the most positive girl on the team. And I'm like, how did she do that? You know, in this environment where this girl wanted her to be excluded from team bonding and all those other things. So anyway, she posts something the other day and she says, the mean girl, you know, I don't have any friends anymore. I'm, you know, so sad, you know, life is worthless, this and that. So I, of course, reached out to her mom and her mom says to me, your daughter already reached out to her. Like I knew about this, you know, Hope called her and I'm like, my kid is amazing. Like after the treatment she received, she's still looking out for this girl, you know? And so anyway, having this discussion with all these kids, you do kind of have to do an x-ray on your relationships to see which ones really are making you happier and which ones might be emotionally abusive. And then as I've been going through other things, I'm like, it's got to be more than just the relationships. I mentioned to you about the connections, you know, staying connected. And I found it. And then another one suggested to me, you know, raise your hand. And under that one, that's where I found the Volunteer Match Network website. where it will match you with a potential volunteer activity. And, you know, whether I do this now or when the kids all graduate, because they're all at home right now. And one of them was to be able to take my dogs that bring me so much joy to others to bring them joy, whether it be... at a hospice or a kid's reading or, you know, someplace where they could work with children who are having some difficulties on the spectrum, etc. And then there were a few more that stuck out to me. Jim, find your inner child. You know, going out, maybe doing some fun things. My girlfriend's in her 80s. She was a teacher. And we just talked this week about how she goes on field trips. I'm like, you're always posting these things on social media. Like she went to the puzzle factory, the candy factory, you know, the Mother Cabrini Shrine. She goes, yes. Yes. She was one of my favorites. John Wooden says, if you're not learning, you're dead.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, it's what he always said. And the good coach lived to be almost 100, a couple months short of being 100. And he was learning right up until the end. So, you know, it's an amazing thing. And we need to be careful about the people we spend time with. And you want to be around people that make your world bigger. They bring you information. They bring you inspiration. And they don't cut you off from other people. There's a couple of national organizations in the television industry that have political ties. And they contacted me recently and said, which one of these two groups are you a member of? I said, I'm actually a member of both. They said, well, that's impossible. We don't allow you to be a member of our group if you've joined their group. And I said, well, you took my money. But if you don't allow me to be a member of your group, if I'm a member of theirs – then I'll be a member of theirs because they're not trying to limit my world. Wow. People that do that to you, you need to be very cautious because it's conditional. And any time a relationship or love or friendship is conditional, you need to avoid that. Yes. It needs to be unconditional. One of the greatest quotes I ever heard, I won the International Humanitarian the year after Mother Teresa. And she said something to me I will never forget. She said, Jim, unless you love everyone unconditionally, you really don't love anyone at all. And wow, that was a tough thing. I thought that's one of those things initially you think that cannot be true. And then you think about it a minute and you realize that has to be true. I mean, if there's any conditions at all, it's conditional. So your love and your acceptance and your friendship, they have to be unconditional. They can't limit other people. They can't do now. Now, respect and honor and those things, those are conditional. But your kids, your family, your friends need to know that I love you unconditionally. I may not like you. I may not respect some of the things you do. But I will always love you and care about you. But, you know, these other things, the likability, the respectability, those things you have to earn.
SPEAKER 02 :
Yeah. And, you know, we were talking to me and the girls. My son was there, too, because, of course, the girls are super cute, you know. So, yeah, he was hanging around. He's like, I'd like to go for ice cream. I'm like, I'll bet you would. But we were talking about, you know, different experiences with people and we were talking about controlling friends. And I said, being friends with someone who is controlling is exhausting. I'm sure it's exhausting for them, but it's certainly exhausting for me. And it's certainly exhausting for you. And so we were talking about that, you know, like gauging a friendship and the value in it that oftentimes there is. a subordinate friend and then the dominant friend that you know you will do as i tell you to do we'll go visit the places we want to visit we'll eat lunch where i want to eat lunch and it's tiring for that for the underdog too you know to be in that relationship and as i was going through all these harvard happiness you know the little kind of idiosyncrasies of their research Um, besides the find the inner child, which is so fun to do, like we're doing some, we're going to Phoenix. We're going to see my brother. He was in the, he went to West Point Military Academy. And so he's jumped out of a lot of the planes. They're at the plane museum and he and my, my husband just love this bonded over the planes and. the stories and how much my brother knew about them. My brother's just a genius anyway. And so my husband wants to go back. That's their inner child where they get to go and see airplanes and walk around in the gravel. And then invest in experiences. Well, that's kind of what we're doing for Christmas. That's what I like to do. That's my present is that we're going to go to Phoenix and we'll see my mom and we're going to see murals and we're going to A Phoenix Suns-Denver Nuggets game, and we're going to see the women's Division I basketball game, which, by the way, $18 plus a $5 fee, so $23. And I got my daughter, who plays basketball, a front row seat on the court. Now, with the Nuggets-Phoenix Suns game for... $200 I can't get out of the nosebleed section and then if you want to sit down there it's like three four or five thousand dollars it's unbelievable to me I had not bought an NBA ticket and so we are gonna have some experiences but maybe not any that are quite that expensive well any experiences you know there's only three things we can do with our money and you know we can save it we can invest it we can give it away and you know spending it on stuff
SPEAKER 03 :
may seem the most immediately fun and exciting, but they have found long-term that investing and saving it is more powerful, but the most powerful thing we can do with our money is buy an experience. And it's so amazing because you realize, man, that vacation I took, it's gone, but it stays with you. You will always have that experience.
SPEAKER 02 :
know you go buy a new pair of shoes or whatever they wear out or they're gone or whatever happens to them but uh having that experience is something no one can ever take away from you i love that one more thing my girlfriend in her 80s who does the field trips and has these experiences told me she said um that she doesn't like to exercise she had a heart attack you know 20 years ago columbine she taught one of the shooters in columbine and knew one of the teachers and that day when she found out about that she had a heart attack i said how have you lived in such a healthy manner all of these years since Columbine, since you had your heart attack. She said, I don't like to walk, but I like to see green. And so I get outside and I walk in the green. And I thought, you know what? That always cheers me up, too, to get out there and see green and get out amidst the outdoors. We're going to go see the Saguaro National Park with those amazing cacti, cactuses that grow to be just so enormous. And then breaking up your routine, doing, you know, different things, changing things up a little. Well, Jim, it's always so fun to have you on the program. Jim Stovall dot com. I hope you have a really merry, merry Christmas.
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, same to you and your family. And let's all go build relationships and experiences.
SPEAKER 02 :
Let's do it.
SPEAKER 03 :
Manitou Springs is listening to the Mighty 670 KLT.
SPEAKER 02 :
Hello there, friend. It's Angie Austin and the Kid Whisperer, Jeff Schott. And we're talking today about raising kids and his book, What's Really Causing My Kids Bad Behavior. And this week we are on Chapter 2, which is Unconscious Thoughts and Feelings Impact Upon Behavior. Welcome back, Jeff.
SPEAKER 04 :
It's great to be back with you, Angie.
SPEAKER 05 :
I appreciate it.
SPEAKER 02 :
You know, raising kids, you know, with Jesus, it's interesting. You know, I get to talk to so many interesting people. And I went to a Christmas party for my station. And one of the guys that has worked there for 30 some odd years, Charlie. Hey, Charlie. He came up and said, Angie, you've just had the best guests on lately, very interesting authors and interviews. And you were one of them, Jeff. And then I think I told you about my friends Margie and Don Cook. I interviewed them first, maybe 12, 13 years ago, and they'd retired and lived in Hawaii, but decided to move to India and build houses for widows because they're basically sent off to die they don't get remarried uh after the tsunami they went to help um years ago and they said oh yeah everybody gets rice but the widows we just really don't want them to live here we'd rather they go away so you know basically we starve them that's fine with us and so that's how they started doing this so anyway it's a real privilege to get you know so many wonderful people like you margie don and all the others i interview every week on the show and to kind of spread the you know the word of the lord and what you guys are doing and out there.
SPEAKER 05 :
It's a big blessing to the body of Christ and to us.
SPEAKER 02 :
Well, with your child rearing, it's an eye opener for me the last few months that you and I have been doing interviews because I think I put the Lord in my child rearing. But when I talk to you, I realize I could do it more so. And it's definitely a softer hand than I think my husband and I have with our child rearing techniques. So as we get into chapter two of what's really causing my kids bad behavior, Jeff also, by the way, talks a lot about all of the research and the interviews he's done with kids, et cetera, about how they feel about how they've been raised and how they, you know, just their feelings in general. We don't often get inside these kids' heads and find out what they're thinking. And chapter two is unconscious thoughts and feelings impact upon behavior. So let's get started.
SPEAKER 04 :
Yeah, I think this is one of the biggest ones that probably really mystifies parents and frustrates us and leads to reactions and conflict with our kids is Oftentimes we'll come to our kids, something's gone wrong, we'll give them information. We believe the situation's going to change, and then it doesn't. And then we come at it a little harder, and it doesn't change again. And then we come at it even harder, and it doesn't change again. And what we found from the research and from working with families with struggling kids, which we do a ton of, is that the kids often are sitting on the other side going, I'm trying to change this. I'm trying to change this. I can't change it. I don't have a clue why. And the parents are frustrated because it should just be a simple decision. But what we don't realize is only 5% of thoughts and emotions are actually conscious. Psychology has proven this.
SPEAKER 02 :
Repeat that. Say that again.
SPEAKER 04 :
Only 5% of thoughts and emotions are conscious. 95% are unconscious. And what causes that is the brain that we think with, that we're very conscious of, operates at a very high speed. But the unconscious brain actually operates at almost 10 times that speed. Oh my goodness. The conscious brain can't keep up with the unconscious brain. Oh my goodness. There can be tons of stuff churning in the unconscious. That is emotional, that leads to triggers, that leads to decisions. And one of the things we found really funny almost in the research is we tend to approach kids like they want to they want to go mess up their lives. We're always, you know, he's that fun. Yeah. And they really don't do they. No, what we found in the research was, heck no, there wasn't a single one of them that said, I got up one morning and said, I want to screw up my life today. I'm going to go smoke, and I'm going to go do drugs, and I'm going to go have sex. I'm just going to go do it all today. Not a single one of them happened. As we talked to them about the path that started them down the wrong road, it was like, there was this small issue, and I couldn't change it, and my parents were getting upset with me and coming down on me, and I was hurt, and I was frustrated, and I distanced from God, and I took another step down the wrong road. And it was all because they didn't understand why they couldn't change it. It was making them more negative and frustrated with themselves, which drove them more and more towards more escape behavior. And it was because there were things going on unconsciously that we haven't been trained as parents to help our kids figure out. We're taught to just tell them, expect them to do it, and make them do it through our consequences and our pressure or our lectures. And the reality is, if our kid doesn't understand why what's happening is happening, they can't change it. And we have to be able to get underneath with them and ask them questions and help them dig and go okay you made this mistake three times what's going on inside how are you feeling you know what what happened in the 24 hours before this event happened and what did it cause you to feel and did that feeling drive you to make the same mistake again okay and a great example sibling conflict okay This kid says you're stupid. If the other sibling has a negative core belief of I'm stupid, it's going to hurt like heck and they're going to blow. And when this kid blows because this kid said you're stupid in passing, we're going to come down on the kid that blew and we're going to tell him to stop reacting that way. But this other kid found a weak spot and keeps poking them and they keep blowing. And this kid keeps getting more and more frustrated, can't figure out why they're blowing. They can't make themselves stop blow because they're not even aware they've got the negative core belief of being stupid. That makes them so sensitive. Yes. Coming in, coming, coming in and going, OK, what are you feeling? What's going on when they say this? Why does you know it's hurting you a ton? Do you believe your stupid deep inside unconsciously?
SPEAKER 02 :
Yeah, yes, yes. And it's so weird you mention that because just I cannot believe how low the kids go. You know, my son said something to my youngest daughter about, oh, you're not going to be D1. You'll probably be lucky if you're NAIA. And one of my daughters did get a scholarship to a Christian NAIA school to play NAIA. a volleyball and then she's offended and the one that thinks she's D1 thinks she's better than the one that's going to the NAIA school you know and then my son says you'll be lucky if you get D3 to the other kid and then she's like you barely made it into CU and that's when I picked up on what they were saying is he's going to the University of Colorado Boulder and um and then I just he went to summer school and then he got in and so then I'm like oh my gosh I'm I just, and then I, I, then I read a text later from my husband that was just like, I've had it with you guys using your most vulnerable and your most, you know, like one of them has ADHD. So that's the one that might think she's stupid. And then the one's really skinny and she doesn't like those comments. And then she calls the other one that's bigger fat. And then they call it, they used to call my son chubby. And they're all going for that. little piece that they know is going to like ruin them, you know, right where they can stab them, you know, in between the ribs and get to them. And it's interesting that they kind of know what each other's weak points are and what will really hurt them. And I can't believe they use it.
SPEAKER 04 :
Right. Well, and that's what we've seen with the traditional parenting structure of when we're coming down on and punishing or using consequences with our kids. We're training them to do that with each other. We don't want to be it that way. But they – when someone hurts me, I'm going to give them a consequence back, okay? The whole point of having a love-centered home, the one rule, which is Jesus' one command to love your neighbor as yourself. So you've got to love yourself and love your neighbor. And in his last teaching time, it's, you know, this is my one command, love one another. This is true love, one who will lay down his life for a friend. We haven't raised our kids to know how to love. How love works, how to love each other, because we've been told that traditional parenting, which is anchored in the Old Testament rules and sacrifices, okay, that didn't work, that led to a silence of the prophets for 300 years, we are unwittingly teaching our kids to be hard on each other. And it breaks down the whole family culture. It breaks down the whole family culture, and love is gone. And we're all pointing out each other's weaknesses. Yes. We're using those vulnerable spots. That is not Jesus' plan for our house. It's just not.
SPEAKER 02 :
You know, it's so funny because I'm never the one picked on, Jeff. I'm never the one picked on. But my husband's under a lot of stress right now, and the girls and I went on a fall break alone, and we were going to go to Florida alone right after Christmas for like a week because my husband's like, really involved with his company and my son's got his business and then my daughter said dad um mom doesn't want to go to Florida she wants to go somewhere else but I really want to go to Florida will you make her go to Florida and come with us right so then she says oh well dad says we can go to Florida okay so here's the underpinning of this I know but if he's coming and he's stressed out that it will be more stressful because he'll be working in the hotel room and And he'll be possibly upset while we're vacationing. And so I said to my daughter, I can't believe you invited him to our vacation. And last night during the midst of all of this, she told him. She said, Mom's mad at me for inviting you on our vacation. And I couldn't believe, Jeff, that I got brought. Usually I'm the protected one. Like no one in the family picks on me. And she totally blew my cover.
SPEAKER 04 :
And so therein lies, you know, we can have completely different family culture than I have it. And when people don't believe it, they don't believe that I don't have any of the issues that parents have.
SPEAKER 02 :
Yeah, because this is what you do. We assume you've worked past all these problems.
SPEAKER 04 :
But no, they don't believe that my kids are loving and that close. They don't believe any of it, honestly. So a lot of people will come visit me during the summer because I'm here in Durango, Colorado. And they'll come and we'll hang out with them for a week. And they'll hang around my family when we're working with them. And they'll be like, Jeff, At the end of the week, your family is so different. The culture is so different. Your kids love each other. They're close. They support each other.
SPEAKER 02 :
Wow. It is nice.
SPEAKER 04 :
Oh, it's huge. I mean it comes with other risks, but I'd rather have these risks than the poking –
SPEAKER 02 :
sensitive reactive culture that i see in so many christian homes today where love just doesn't seem to function at all you know it's funny because they do they do love each other but it doesn't come out like when one got in an accident recently you know um my daughter that found out at a volleyball game started hyperventilating and we could see her on the video of the game because we were out of town So when she was approached and told, um, she, she just really lost it like emotionally. And we were like, what, why were you so obsessed? She was like, just, I just, I know I get mad at him, but I just love him so much. You know, the love is there, but sometimes it's a little, you know, further underground than we would like it to be. All right. We've got a minute left, Jeff. So let's, um, what do you want to leave us with today? And we'll pick up next week.
SPEAKER 04 :
You know, I think you can go to my site, OneRuleHome.com, and you can sign up and get the What's Really Causing My Kids Bad Behavior book for free. You can also right now for a limited time take our Child Concern Index Assessment. Oh, cool. Because lots of times we're really concerned about our kids, and we're not sure should we really be concerned or not. This is a comprehensive index that will return up to a 70-page detailed report based upon everything you indicate, and it will give you an assessment of how concerned should you be with your kid right now and the situation they're in. Both of those are free right on the top of the main page of our site right now. So go to one rule home dot com, get the book, take the child concern index. And then from there, if you want to talk, you can schedule a free consult call and talk with me or one of our other coaches.
SPEAKER 02 :
Excellent. And again, the book that we talk about every week is what's really causing my kids bad behavior. Jeff shot. Thanks, Jeff.
SPEAKER 05 :
Thank you, Angie.
SPEAKER 01 :
Thank you for listening to The Good News with Angie Austin on AM670 KLTT.
In this episode, Angie delves into the power of silence and understanding in relationships, offering insights on how emotional vulnerability can foster deeper connections. The conversation flows into delightful Christmas traditions, from baking and decorating to creating new culinary memories with family and friends. Tune in for a dose of positivity and festive inspiration.
SPEAKER 01 :
Thank you so much for having me. Welcome to The Good News with Angie Austin. Now, with The Good News, here's Angie.
SPEAKER 08 :
Hello there, it's Angie Austin and also Grace Fox. And we are doing the good news with Angie Austin and talking about her book, Fresh Hope for Today, Devotions for Joy on the Journey. And today we're focusing on Let It Go. But I thought I'd talk a little about Christmas. Hello there, Grace Fox. Hi, so good to be back with you. Well, great to be with you, too. I love the story, and I will just tell it one more time because I think it's so sweet. I think this is the third time we've told it, but I just love the story about when your kids were little and you'd do things for people at Christmas, your neighbors and everything, which I know you do now. Part of living in, you know, Grace, as many of you know, lives on a boat. And so in the marina, she likes to kind of bring things together and maybe host, like, you know, coffee and cinnamon rolls or just have that, like, neighborhood feel. And in your old neighborhood when you were a kid, there was this crotchety old couple that you were all kind of afraid of. And I just love this story. So will you tell us the gingerbread man story again?
SPEAKER 06 :
Sure, yeah. That's when my kids were smaller. I think my youngest one was probably kindergarten age, first grade, something like that. The oldest would have been about third or fourth grade then. And we decided that we were going to bake cookies for our neighbors and put them in little bags. Then we would put a tag on and deliver them. So when we delivered them, we sang We Wish You a Merry Christmas at the door. And the neighbors loved it. But at the top of the road, beginning of this little dirt road that we lived on, was a couple who, he especially, was not very friendly. And so people just stared clear of them. He made it clear he did not want people stopping by or trying to reach out. So we respected that. But that day we thought we're going to break the rules and we're going to take cookies to these people too. So we walked up their driveway and rang the doorbell but only the missus came to the door. So we handed her the cookies and we sang a little song and she took the cookies and said thank you, closed the door. So we turned around and started walking away and then suddenly she called us. So we turned around and she motioned for us to come back and When we did, she got tears in her eyes and she said, thank you for this. You will never know how much this meant. Then she told us that her husband had died two weeks before. Nobody, nobody on the road really was aware of it because they didn't have any friends. It wasn't in the newspaper. There was no notification public. This guy had died. There was no way that we could have known. And so here we did this just because we wanted to be kind. and did not realize the impact that that little cookie gift would have on a neighbor whose heart was broken. And so that, to me, was such a lesson in just random acts of kindness. They might not seem like anything big, but because we don't know where people's hearts are, we don't know what their circumstances behind the scenes are, we just don't understand sometimes the
SPEAKER 08 :
positive impact that a little random act of kindness can have yeah i i that affected me too just that story and that i would we have we have a guy like that in our neighborhood and maybe i think i met him five years into living here and i think we've lived here seven years now and um Yeah, he just isn't, he doesn't really want to have friends and he doesn't want to be friendly. But his wife is actually kind of friendly, but I think people avoid them because of him. And I always wave at her when she's walking her dog. She has lots of dogs. And, you know, in her case and both of the wives, they may actually be friendly people, but... If your spouse is someone that keeps others at bay, you know, you're kind of trapped in their world, you know, to some degree. And so it's just interesting that she called you back to let you know. And I don't know, I just love that story. And I can see how those little lessons can really have an impact too, because, um, you know, when someone shows you with their tears and their voice and, you know, they're trembling. Like I just was at an event where I had to tell a reason how I met this particular lady. And she, to me, is like the kind of mom that I would pick if I could pick a mom. And I'm not saying I don't love my mom, but I was the mom. You know, I definitely made sure the phone bill was paid. I made the responsible decisions. I, you know, helped her buy a house. I was the mom. And so if I could have picked a mom that was more mom-ish, I would have picked this particular woman. And so we had this luncheon for Arlene and one of the ladies was like, she was so funny, she was like, she goes, what do I do for a lady who has everything? What do you give lady who has everything? I thought I give lady... a party for her friends and so she had this really nice gathering of all her best friends which was a huge group and believe me she had to cut a lot of people out because she's so beloved for her philanthropy and she just you know is always giving and she's on committees and she's raising money and she's donating money and she's doing the luncheons and then she does this funny thing where she uh donates a catered dinner in her home where she pays for the caterers and then her home is like it's like something frank sinatra would live in like you think the rat pack would live there like white columns in the front and a giant fountain a circular driveway and they've got you know the valets to take your car and the pool in the pool house and the tennis courts it's amazing so she has this big dinner right and then she'll try to coax us into being french maids She's like, you know, I donated another dinner and I raised $10,000 for whatever charity. And I was wondering, it's served by French maids. I'm like, girl, I love you, but I'm not wearing a French maid costume for you. I'll wear like a tux. But anyway, we had to say how we met her, right? And then I couldn't contain my emotion to explain how... she's included me because she's my mom's age so she's always included me in her very wealthy circle of friends and so you know here i was at the time maybe in my 20s when i first met her and her friends were you know old older very wealthy you know very fancy homes and you know i can't remember then if i'd even bought my house yet you know she didn't care what i had or who i was or whatever i would mc a lot of their events because i was on tv then And so they'd be like, oh, we'll have Angie be the emcee of the event. So I donate my time or whatever. So anyway, when I start telling them what she means to me, like I can't contain my emotion. And I think when like that woman, when she got the tears in her eyes, when you've really touched someone's heart and you hear that emotion that you don't hear often in life that people and then they're embarrassed, right? We're embarrassed when we let our emotion come through. But I looked around at all the other ladies at the table and it was like, I'd say 25 of us, at least they're all crying with me, you know? And so they were touched that I had been so touched by this woman and her kindness, but that kind of emotion is like infectious or it moves people. Cause I don't think we hear it that often.
SPEAKER 06 :
I think we tend to, um, equate that kind of emotion displayed with weakness yes and that that's not accurate that's not accurate at all like if our hearts are overflowing with um you know we've been touched for some reason like it's really ministered to us deeply it's okay to cry it's okay to to show that we've been touched we don't have to stifle that it's not weakness it is not weakness it's just our
SPEAKER 08 :
You know, I was talking to the coaches that were going, not at the time, going to offer, they did offer my daughter a scholarship. And it's a very strong Christian school where they train a lot of pastors. And the assistant coach who found her, he is actually a pastor and a dad. And we were talking about faith. And then I was sharing a little bit of my testimony with them. And of course, we're on like some kind of a Zoom call and it's just me and the coaches because she'd had an initial call and then we had to discuss some other, you know, little finalities or this, that, and the other. And then I got emotional saying that. I'm like, oh, I'm so embarrassed. But I... But being people of faith themselves, like they didn't judge me in that way that we normally like some men would be embarrassed or whatever. But and I'm like, oh, my gosh, my daughter would kill me if she knew that, you know, I just got teary eyed talking about my faith with them. But since it's a Christian school and that's they actually vet you. That the players like have an initial call where they just see like, are you saying you're a Christian to get into the school? Because this is an important aspect of our school. So if you're not in, if you can't buy into our faith, you know, then then it it might not work for you or for them for that matter, you know. So anyway, that was interesting. My husband would have killed me too. Okay, so we've got Christmas upon us and we're talking about Let It Go. So what in your devotion, what are you talking about in your Let It Go devotion?
SPEAKER 06 :
In this little devotion, it's about giving all your worries and cares to God for he cares about you. 1 Peter 5, 7. There's a friend of mine who was speaking at, or she was listening at this point, at a women's conference. Usually she speaks, but this time she was in the audience and She was saying she's wearing this smile on the outside, but it was covering up hurt on the inside. And she just felt like everything was spinning out of control in her life. But she listened as the speaker talked about a toddler receiving a helium balloon with a string attached. And when that toddler was told to hold the string tight so it doesn't fly away, he did the opposite. He just let it go. So the mom said, well, why'd you do that? And he said, I didn't let it go, mommy. I gave it to Jesus. And it's like, it is beautiful. And I think, you know, we could tie this one into Christmas because when we get together with people for Christmas, family and friends, that's going to happen because there's tense relationships. Let's just put it out there. There are tense relationships in families and groups. And so we can either hang on to that string real tight or we can let it go. When somebody says or does something that we find offensive, let it go and just give it to Jesus. We don't have to hang on to it. And it's our choice if we do. If we do, it just isn't going to go well in our own self, in our own hearts, because then we start to brew on it. We know how that works. Right, Angie? We start to brew on it. We stew on it. We regurgitate it over and over in our heads until it's a big, big deal. But we don't have to live like that. So... maybe that would be the challenge. So this Christmas when stuff happens that we don't anticipate, whether it's a huge disappointment because a storm blows in and now family can't come home or we can't get to where we're supposed to be. All of our plans are shot because of weather related stuff or airline stuff or whatever. Or somebody says that thing that hurt, let those disappointments go. Let that hurt go. Give it to Jesus and take that big breath and just
SPEAKER 08 :
You know, I just recently interviewed Dan Lyons, and he is an agreement-like expert or art of conflict expert. And he wrote this book, which isn't really like, you know, the title that you and I would go for, but it's STFU, The Power of Keeping Your Mouth Shut in an Endlessly Noisy World. And what was funny about his, you know, basically shut up book was that he said, you know, silence is powerful. You don't always have to respond with something or. And he also said that an interesting way for you to make them not feel so challenged is, you know, well, thank you for sharing that. That's, you know, you know, I've never thought of it that way. Thank you. And then he said, also, you can ask them, you know, oh, that's it. Why do you say that? Or why do you think that? That's interesting. How come you said that? Like, why do you think that way? You know, are you just kind of being quizzical more? And he said, you might learn something. It's not necessarily going to change your mind. But he said, being the smartest guy in the room, well, and I remind him, being the smartest guy in the room makes you generally smarter. the most despised person in the room. Like you think, oh, I'm going to win this argument. I'm going to think I'm so smart. No, they're going to think you're a jerk because you're shoving your views down someone's throat and trying to get them to acquiesce. And that doesn't make you strong. It makes you a bully. And so, but I loved the silence, you know, and he said you should listen two times as much as you talk, which I'll bet you do. I could see that being one of your gifts to not be the one that has to talk the most in the room, even though you and I are both speakers per se, you know.
SPEAKER 06 :
Oh, I have to work at keeping my mouth shut too, Angie. I have to think sometimes, wait a minute. There's this thing happening in my head in response to what I just heard. If I open my mouth and let that thing out, is it really going to be helpful to this relationship or is it going to hurt?
SPEAKER 07 :
Oh, my goodness. We're out of time. Grace, you are so funny. I have to work on it too, Angie. The book is Fresh Hope for Today, GraceFox.com. Thank you, Grace.
SPEAKER 06 :
You bet. Talk to you again.
SPEAKER 04 :
Bomar is listening to the mighty 670 KLTT Denver.
SPEAKER 03 :
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SPEAKER 08 :
Hey, it's almost Christmas time. I want to talk about some Christmas traditions and memories this year. That's always fun to do. I'm excited because I'm going to get to spend Christmas with my mom, kind of unexpected, and my brother. We were going to head to Florida or California, but then we looked at the forecast in Phoenix, near where they are, they're in Tucson, and thought, boy, that looks like a really nice, warm, fun place to go. And we knew that Gran Gran would get a kick out of that. My brother's like... An amazing cook. I mean, he is like chef quality food. He's such a good cook. And so that will be wonderful. Absolutely wonderful to get to enjoy, you know, warm weather, which I'm ready for the sunshine and family as well. I wanted to talk about some Christmas traditions. I still remember when we would make the kids, and I think I've told you this, we'd make the kids wait at the top of the stairs Christmas morning, and they'd have to wait up there until everybody was awake. So we had to get grand-grand up, and then they could run down and start ripping. But they'd just sit at the top of the stairs, just chomping at the bit to get downstairs. And I've talked about some of our Christmas traditions, but I found some really cool ones that I thought... You might get a kick out of it. And we can still do them even though it's so close to Christmas. I just ordered some construction paper and doilies that I'm going to pick up today. And we're going to cut out snowflakes and put them on the windows. And the kids are all in high school, so they still like to do a lot of this stuff. I don't know if my son will do the snowflakes, but I know the girls... We'll do that. And then going out and looking at Christmas lights, we still do that with some, you know, hot cocoa in the car and driving around. I think that's a lot of fun. And then we often do like a really nice, you know, like going out for dinner, doing kind of a nice Christmas, you know, dinner, not necessarily on Christmas Day per se, but just going out together as a family. And we even planned a couple of things for Christmas weekend, ice skating. And my husband's a really good ice skater because he used to play hockey. Ice skating and then a movie that's coming out. Making Christmas cookies. My youngest daughter already did that. Sometimes going out for like a holiday market. Things like that over this last weekend. That might be fun. And ice skating you can do. There's lots of places around Denver you can find to do that. And then making like really cool hot chocolates. Maybe you're going to watch a show together at night. We have that, you know, Keurig thing or whatever you put the little pods in, but we always add like maybe fancy marshmallows or an extra glob of chocolate. There's this Mexican hot chocolate that's like your grandma's Mexican hot chocolate and it's got a big chunk of chocolate. And then the cinnamon that's added, which is traditional. So that's pretty yummy. A lot of people do like a, you know, this is what you would have to do earlier, but you might think about for next year, a do-it-yourself advent calendar. Or my kids just used to like them, but if there was chocolate in them, I think it was Hope. I don't know for sure, but she opened up a whole bunch of the windows and ate all the chocolate out. So that didn't work very well. Um, I'm going to have the kids like make something, each make something for Christmas dinner. We're going to do filet mignon, but then I think I'll have one of them do the salad. One of them do the dessert. Maybe we'll do a yummy side, like some really good mashed potatoes or something, but making them each responsible for something. It kind of gives them some pride in the meal as well. I do this one. This is on the list of cool Christmas traditions. Filling the tree with special ornaments. Every year I get the kids an ornament and then I put on the back of it the date that I got the ornament. And that's kind of fun because then they've got their name on it and then when they grow up they have a whole bunch of ornaments that they can take with them. we're going to um christmas eve service but if uh and some people go christmas day um a really neat christmas breakfast my mom would do that oftentimes like french toast or you know eggs benedict and maybe it becomes a tradition where you have that every christmas morning my mom used to do oyster stew which i actually really liked as a kid which is surprising but my kids don't like it so then my mom started doing chili for the kids because they really like that she's not with us this Christmas she's with my brother so I don't know if we'll do her chili or not but it's so good a lot of people do the tradition of you know taking a family photo like by the Christmas tree or maybe they take a family photo and send it out on their Christmas card I haven't done Christmas cards in ages I lost like my mailing list and then I kind of just like I don't know kind of let it go um Then a lot of people do the white elephant. We did that at a couple of parties this year. It's kind of fun where you, I mean, it doesn't have to be a bad gift, but you know, where you say, I'm going to steal, you know, let's say Mark's opened up some really cool scarf and I'm like, Ooh, I want that scarf. And so I say, you know, I'll steal the scarf. And then, um, and then he gets to pick a new gift or steal from someone else. It's kind of fun because there's lots of laughing because there's always some gift that everybody wants. You know, that's fun. If you've chosen that one, um, fun tree toppers we just do a star but the one that's in the article I'm reading um they made a big felt like dinosaur that they you know decorated with little pom-poms and it's a little dinosaur on top of their tree made out of felt that's pretty cute some people do too like a like a fun cocktail for Christmas Eve or Christmas Day we're not really drinkers but I did get um a bottle of like mimosas for us to have. And I love going around doing Christmas memories. Grandma and grandpa were just here and we talked about grandma's dad when she was six weeks old. He left and he went to World War II. And he was gone until she was two years old. And just talking about, you know, what was special for them for Christmas and, you know, what they ate when they didn't have a lot of money. And this was an interesting meal that they had. They got dandelion greens when they're really little, like sprouting up in the morning. Her mom would go out in the yard or wherever, and they'd be about four inches long. And she'd pick all these dandelion greens. And she said sometimes she'd also use the roots. and they put oil and vinegar on the dandelion greens and then a hard boiled egg, which they would chop up in the salad. So they'd make a salad out of it. And grandma says it was delicious. They also had liver and onions, which was apparently really inexpensive as well. And not one of my favorites, but she still loves it to this day. So does my mom. It's just kind of, you know, a thing, you know, that they just really love that. And that was a memory for her that, you know, she cherished. And Grandpa was talking about how poor they were, but they never thought of themselves as poor. He said, I just did not see myself as poor because all the other families were poor. And grandma was in an Italian slash Polish family. Her dad was Italian, mom Polish. But everyone was Italian on her dad's side of the family, other than her mom, of course. And so they had a lot of traditions involving a lot of food. And then grandpa from an Irish family. And... he just said that everybody else was poor too so he didn't see himself as poor and a lot of the kids went to like private catholic schools so they had to pay for school they were paying for school when they were you know when they didn't have much money to spare let's put it that way oh another fun tradition um christmas movies we're going to a movie this christmas like later in the day um the boys in the boat supposed to be really good and then um the the christmas movies that you know you enjoy like we always watch one of the christmas vacations because i know it still makes us laugh i don't know and some people do the real christmas tree still do you we don't do that and we stopped doing the elf on the shelf the kids really wanted to keep doing the elf on the shelf and i'm like Are you kidding me? Like, you have to remember to move it every single night. And then I handed it over to my son when he figured out what we were doing and told him he had to move it every night. And he didn't. And I'd always like say, oh, there was a weather alert. And so the elves, it was too dangerous for the elves to fly to the North Pole last night to report to Santa. So that's why they didn't move. It's like, oh, and then remembering where you put it. I had to take a picture of where I put it because you'd hide it in so many different places. You wouldn't even remember where you put it. You know, there's also this holiday hide and seek. It's some weird tradition with a pickle. And so here's someone talking about it. It says, my mom would hide a pickle ornament on the Christmas tree for the family to find. And it says, last year she tucked it so well among her 40 years worth of ornaments that it took us two days to find the pickle. The origins of the Christmas pickle tradition are murky, but experts believe that the glass gherkin ornaments, the pickle, have been hung on American trees since the late 1800s. And so it's find the pickle. it's so silly we like to um you know usually drive in our car because it's so chilly you know to look at the christmas lights but if you have a mild night it's fun to walk around some of the nicer neighborhoods and let them you know check things out the kids um also the um opening a present on christmas eve that's a big one for my kids they love to open one they even ask can we still open one present on christmas eve i'm like sure sure sure Well, and, you know, cooking is a big part of, you know, the holidays, you know, Christmas as well. I don't know if you have many New Year's traditions, usually that for many, well, many people that involves drinking. For us, it's usually food. But we have a new thing this year. I think I told you that my 15 year old. has been taking a culinary class, but she'd also really been interested in cooking before that. And she's learning it in the most unusual place, but I guess not unusual for this particular generation. She's learning how to cook on TikTok and Instagram, these videos, these cooking videos. And so she'll have a little video on and she'll keep repeating it. And last night I had five teenagers in the kitchen and they had brought all the ingredients for gluten-free brownies because one of them is gluten-free and two of them are vegetarians and they were doing a sleepover so anyway they made this plate of pretty simple like uh you know christmas treats and one is one of my favorites where you take a rollo are you familiar with the rollo it's the caramel with the chocolate around it and then they had um little pretzels just a traditional small pretzel And you just put them in the oven for just the slightest amount of time for the rollo to slightly melt on top of the pretzel. Now, I melt it and I put a pecan on top of that because I like nuts. But the girls not liking nuts as much because you've already got salt, you know, from the pretzel. The girls like not liking nuts as much. They put a little M&M on top. So it was a pretzel on the bottom and then a rollo and then an M&M and it made... super cute you know Christmas treat and then they also did pretzels with like a white chocolate kind of melted and thinned out with crunched up candy canes so it was a pretzel a little bit of white chocolate and crunched up candy cane super delicious and And then they did the gluten-free brownies. Oh, and then the other simple thing they did, they had one little container of dark chocolate melts, Ghirardelli dark chocolate melts. And they melted it in, you know, over, you can do it in the micro, but they did it over the stove, which always makes for a messy pan. But they did it over the stove. And they dipped all of the, they don't even cut off the top of the strawberry. They dipped all of these strawberries in the chocolate. It's just kind of cool when you can get, you know, teenagers to now kind of take over some of the Christmas cooking. Oh, and then they did chocolate chip cookies as well, which you can decorate, obviously, with lots of, you know, different colored things. My mom was a big, because their brownie pan was so tiny, it was just a little square one. I don't think my mom ever, with four kids, three of them boys... ever made the small square pound pan of brownies my mom always made the 9x13 pan of brownies so i like the chocolate mint i'm sorry the pardon me the chocolate brownie with the mint frosting so i just bought a container of peppermint i kind of took the lazy way out i do have the stuff to actually make it but last night so much was going on we were decorating a wrapping presents and we have a puppy and everybody's passing the puppy around and then the kids saw a spider and they were all screaming oh my gosh they're so loud that many teenagers so anyway um but it's fun i love it i love having them over i just took um cream cheese frosting it's like a dollar a container and granted i know it's not good for you it's not the good frosting and then um some peppermint Mixed it together with a little bit of green food coloring. And then that kind of makes you, you know, your festive little brownie option. And so I did that for their gluten-free brownies. And, you know, I put it to the side because not everybody wants it, you know. So anyway, those were the ideas. And then Faith is going to do a big dinner again since she did Thanksgiving. Her homemade rolls were the best rolls I've ever had in my life. But she made them kind of big, you know, so we had a hard time like cooking them enough because they were... Like a roll as big as your head. I mean, she must have really been hungry when she made those rolls. And then a really delicious... The mashed potatoes were unbelievable. She said she's never used so much butter in her life. That's probably why. And of course, she got like the organic Irish butter. And then her gravy. I mean... Homemade gravy. I mean, this kid's not cutting any corners. I know a grandma, my mother-in-law, she bought everything at Sam's Club. She told me, oh, just go get it at Sam's Club. And Faye said, no, I want to make everything myself. So she's cooking it again for Christmas. So that should be fun as well. I hope you have a Merry Christmas. I hope you enjoy the good news. And I just hope that the stories we share on the program, you know, add to the, I don't know, a little bit of sunshine into your day, because I certainly enjoy doing it. And I love talking to all the different interesting people that, you know, I get to talk to. So thank you so much and Merry Christmas.
SPEAKER 02 :
Thank you for listening to The Good News with Angie Austin on AM670 KLTT.
SPEAKER 05 :
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This episode explores more than just the benefits of consistent habits; it's a deep dive into the fabric of building a rewarding life and career. Angie and Scott discuss the balance of home and work life, financial prudence, and the art of showing respect and preparedness in business meetings. Listen in as Scott provides invaluable wisdom on steering financial complications early in life, setting the stage for long-term success. Whether you're venturing into your professional journey or looking to pivot your life's path, these lessons are an inspiring guide to help you along the way.
SPEAKER 01 :
Welcome to the good news with Angie Austin. Now with the good news, here's Angie.
SPEAKER 05 :
Hey there, Angie Austin here along with Scott Montgomery. He is the author of How Did You Get Here? Lessons of Unconventional Success. We've done several interviews and we're kind of breaking down, you know, how to reach that level of success through the chapters of his book. And today we are on the chapter titled Habits. Welcome back, Scott. Thank you, Angie. Good to talk to you. So give us kind of, yes, yes. Kind of just give us a brief, you know, if you had to give a, you know, a 30 second, one minute elevator speech about what your book's about for people who've missed you in the past, just kind of give us a little overview and then we'll get into habits.
SPEAKER 06 :
Yeah, absolutely. Well, you know, I wrote this book as a way to kind of pay it forward for the next generation of business folks and folks that are driving success in sort of a different way than, you just conventional, get a degree, get a job, and call yourself successful. What I did is I tried to break down relationships and partnerships, how I communicate, my habits, my goals, and sort of correlate for my reader my experience with those topics and how they can then hopefully parlay their experience into those topics and drive and find their own happiness and success. I love it. It emerged in 2019 during COVID, and right after my brother had passed, So I wanted to kind of keep a legacy piece on the bookshelf for my family after I pass. There's a lot of reasons for this book.
SPEAKER 05 :
And I think an interesting, you know, side note that I've found in us becoming radio friends is that we've got, like, our kids, you've got three kids. Our kids are, like, basically the same age. They're getting their driver's licenses. They're finishing up high school. They're in high school. And so it's been kind of fun to go over all of that with you. We've done partnerships and relationships, and you talked a lot about partnerships. people that you've worked with in the past who were like tens who were shiny stars that you then hired in your own company and then your relationship you know with your wife that's so important and how she is a big help um you know within your company and i wouldn't doubt at some point maybe you even have you know a couple of kids working in there too but we'll see about that they're a little young but you said you had a funny story for me before we get into habits
SPEAKER 06 :
Well, I did. And speaking of my wife and relationships, one of the stories that I tell in partnerships, the chapter mostly about my wife is when we were meeting with Zach Nicholas and his wife, Barbara, at a closed happy hour, we were talking to them about the trials and tribunes of being in relationship and also running a business together. And we had a really nice conversation around it. And it was there that my wife sort of indicated she felt like she was maybe more a string to my kite than she really wanted to be. And so we sort of had an evolution in our relationship. It was back in 2017. Well, it turns out I'm going to be at this same happy hour again this month meeting with Jack and Barbara. And, you know, I call him Jack, Mr. Nicholas. And I'm going to bring my book and hopefully tell him all the good that has come of the story that I share about having met him the first time.
SPEAKER 05 :
Oh, I love it.
SPEAKER 06 :
I'm looking forward to it.
SPEAKER 05 :
That's so funny you mention that because yesterday Jim Stovall, one of my favorite authors, he's written like 60 books. He joins me once a week. He also was talking about Jack, and he's interviewed so many cool people over the years. I don't think he's – those are the two times he's been brought up in the last two days. So I love a good inspirational story.
SPEAKER 06 :
All right. Yeah, it'll be nice to close the loop with him.
SPEAKER 05 :
Yes.
SPEAKER 06 :
I think it'll go right into habits, and we'll talk about that for sure.
SPEAKER 05 :
Well, and then tell, you know, after you meet with him, give us kind of the update of your meeting per se.
SPEAKER 06 :
Oh, I want him to sign my book. I want to give him a copy, and then I want him to sign my copy. So, yeah, I hope I get both of those. We'll see if that comes to fruition.
SPEAKER 05 :
Awesome. Awesome. All right. How did you get here? Chapter three, habits. So how is this going to help us reach success?
SPEAKER 06 :
So you know what I found in habits that I sort of learned at an early age is that habits sort of drive behaviors. And when I was in high school, I had bad habits. I was smoking cigarettes. I was eating unhealthy food. There was no routine to when I got up in the morning or when I went to bed at night. There was no real structure in how I was living my day to day. And my grades reflected on it. My attention at school and all that stuff sort of didn't go well until about 11th or 12th grade when I realized, hey, wait a minute, why don't I get rid of these bad habits and incorporate good ones? Go to the gym, eat healthy, plan my meals. And as soon as I did that, I started to realize my grades were improving, my outlook and outcomes were improving, my relationships were improving, my attitude and tone and tenor were improving. And I thought I'd talk about it in my book because I think people don't realize they get lost in their own habits and And if they're not good ones, they can really pull you down.
SPEAKER 05 :
Yes, and just a few bad habits can pull you down. Let's talk about that because, you know, since my kids are the same age as yours are, I find that their habits sometimes really need to be, like, reminded out of them. I think my son's kind of past that stage where he gets up for work. He's always on time. He runs his own business. He schedules things. He keeps his own appointments. And he just graduated from high school. So that's cool. But the girls, and they're not going to like this, but... You know, food. Oh, you're leaving for practice. Did you pack anything healthy? Did you get enough sleep for your tournament? Did you stay up until 3 or 4 a.m. for a tournament when your parents are dropping huge amounts of money on you playing and trying to get you into college? That's right. returning the the emails from the coaches that are asking if they can do phone calls with you are you scheduling those phone calls when they ask for them are you studying for an exam that's coming up or do you as my daughter put it once at the end of the school year i said are you sure you're prepared for this exam she goes oh i have my ways and so now it's become a family joke because we're retaking that class this summer and so she she's doing a grade recovery course where she's taking a college course to replace it. And she's got an A right now, but guess who's right alongside her reminding her every day to study. So we always say when the kids are like, I got to hand her love. And I look at my husband, I go, she's got her ways.
SPEAKER 06 :
You know, and that's funny. We talk, it's so funny because when we talk about kids, I was lucky enough to realize that the 10th, 11th, 12th grade is when these fundamentals sort of start to get embedded and they really do make a difference.
SPEAKER 05 :
And you did it yourself. That was all you.
SPEAKER 06 :
I did it myself, and I really will say I did it myself because I realized quickly. So cigarettes was a really bad habit for me in high school. And the minute I stopped and I replaced it with running, I felt better. So there was a really quick turn for me on, wait, if I put structure in things. You know, there's maturity. There's examples. But there really is, if you put some structure on things, they will go smoother and more productively. They will yield you more happiness. which will ultimately drive that word success. And I think that's where I learned it early. And that's what I do now. So I still try and live in the patterns of, to your point, I have a daughter, you know, hey, did you make your bed? Did you clean up your room? Did you even just rinse out the sink or brush your teeth before you got up this morning and left the house?
SPEAKER 05 :
Oh, my gosh, the teeth. I mean, the teeth. I mean, that's one because they'll be walking out. And I'm like, did you remember to brush your teeth? Oh, oh, yes.
SPEAKER 06 :
You're 16 now, so let's go ahead and brush our teeth and let's march right back upstairs. But I think that the rigor of that and those habits will drive her and my other children to more successful goals, objectives.
SPEAKER 05 :
and happiness overall you know no one wants to sit in the dentist chair get the teeth drilled oh my goodness oh okay all right so um you started those habits when you were in high school on your own which is so awesome uh my son's been going to the gym like on his own because we do family gym night with everyone but he kind of now does it on his own and goes later with his friends to a a different gym than we go to which i get it when you're just going into college you don't really want to work out with mommy and daddy and your little sisters so um so he's he's he's on that road so let's talk about these habits for success for you know once you pass the high school years yes yes so you know i think it's important that those patterns come into play you know um i'm when habits are generally um important for example this call
SPEAKER 06 :
I'm prepared. I'm ready. I'm sitting down, ready for this call 10 minutes in advance. That's a habit that will yield me more focus, more attention, and hopefully more productivity in our time together. So when you're in business and you're emerging into business, showing up late, kind of having those loose edges, not doing things on sort of a consistent basis will definitely drive perception, and that will eliminate opportunity. So When we start to get into my book further, we'll realize that because I had good habits, I then forged good relationships with people who would help me move into higher-ranked roles. So it's not always about the skill I bring and the work I do. It's the perception I bring forward that I'm in meetings 10 minutes before they start, always and forever. It's a habit. And it shows interest. It shows intent. And for those who are joining me, it shows respect. And they're now interested in driving or helping my successes. which ultimately helps theirs as well. Back to hiring those folks that I work with because they know the style of habit that I have in the structure we work in at Worldgate every day.
SPEAKER 05 :
You know, I was thinking about that too, just that when people come in, that it is really a show of respect as well, in addition to helping you be prepped and, you know, to put on a good presentation or to present good information and be organized. But it just shows the people like, you know, I really respect your time, you know, and I'm not running, you know, by the seat of my pants per se to get into it. Okay, what else?
SPEAKER 06 :
Well, I think, you know, from those habits perspective, that's good. And, you know, there was one I was just trying to recall here about You know, one of the other lessons that I learned in habits wasn't around cigarettes or time management. It was also around finances. I found myself in a real money crunch in my senior year of high school. I was $40,000 in debt. I was driving the shiny new yellow Honda Prelude. I had all the leather jackets and I was to be seen when I showed up anywhere I was with things I couldn't afford. So what I learned real quick, well, things that I learned real quick in that was hey, maybe the habit of balancing your checkbook, maybe the habit of living inside a budget, maybe the habit of sort of not spending what you didn't earn yet. Don't use the credit card unless it's a way for you to bridge a gap or get points. And so I learned through the negative a lot in high school era that if you can switch it to what we started to talk about a minute ago, habits are all around us in everything we do. And I think if we can switch create that rigor. And what I want to try and talk about in my book is creating that rigor and using these examples, because then they reflect on what goals I can set for myself next chapter. They talk about what relationships I have prior chapter, how my partnership is instead every day, how I communicate chapter six mentors and, and coaches that engage with me that actually find me competent because I show up 10 minutes early, for example, you know, And so I think there's a real golden thread through this particular chapter with all the others in the book that I really want to drive home to the next generation. And the next generation is in high school. It's those who are wondering what they can do to make themselves more successful slash happy with what they're doing.
SPEAKER 05 :
Well, and I it's interesting how that financial piece. can so adversely affect you know your success and every aspect of your life uh to be you know 40 grand in debt you know in you know leaving high school and uh how that self-control you know how difficult it is to go wait a second especially when you know keeping up with the joneses my nephew lives in los angeles and his um clothes are a little bit um rough around the edges shall we say because he's just kind of like you know given up on trying to compete with the joneses and He was talking to one of my girlfriends about dating in L.A. and how he doesn't really fit the mold. And then somebody drove with him or met him at his mom's place right outside of Beverly Hills in Century City. And they said, oh, well, I thought you were poor. Oh, wow. you know just because you know people just go by i mean how do you just go buy a car and clothes to me that's not indicative of wealth at all but in some circles that really is and in some circles that to me is indicative of debt and i'm trying to teach the kids that too like i know you see so and so the neighbor driving you know that car but we know for a fact you know that their finances are strained or this, that, and the other, because maybe I know the mom or this, that, and the other, you know? All right, so tell people where to get your book. How did you get here?
SPEAKER 06 :
So you can buy it on Amazon. We can get it at Target. You can get it at Barnes & Noble. It's How Did You Get Here? Lessons of Unconventional Success. There's also a website, howdidyougethere.com.
SPEAKER 05 :
Excellent. Thank you, Scott.
SPEAKER 06 :
Thank you.
SPEAKER 03 :
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SPEAKER 02 :
Fine Bluffs, Wyoming is tuned to the mighty 670 KLT.
SPEAKER 05 :
Hey, a real treat for us as we near Christmas, Michelle Ron, Michelle A. Ron, my good friend. We text every single day because we wake up in the morning and our good friend, Beatrice Bruno, gives us some scripture to start the day. And I thought, who better to talk about Christmas and what it means to us than Michelle Ron. Hello, friend.
SPEAKER 04 :
Oh, good morning and afternoon and evening. It's just wonderful to be with you, Angie. You're just such a burst of joy. You really are.
SPEAKER 05 :
You know, it's just, well, I feel the same about you. We, you know, exchange not only scripture in the morning and a prayer, but, you know, then we kind of keep each other updated on our lives. You know, what's going on if something's going on with my kids or you take a trip or see the grandkids. You take really neat little side trips to me. You take good vacations, but In your retirement, besides being a speaker and representing, of course, Miss Senior America, you do a lot of really neat little outings that I like to follow.
SPEAKER 04 :
They're my field trips. They're Bob and my field trips. This last summer, and I'm a retired teacher. That's why I'm laughing.
SPEAKER 05 :
I'm laughing because you still plan field trips. It's so cute. Oh, gosh.
SPEAKER 04 :
Well, you know what? When you reach this age, it's real easy to stay put and not do anything, and Bob loves to do puzzles, and I am out and about, but this summer I just decided that, oh my gosh, we have got to get out and start learning something and doing something different, and so it's been really fun. I've had several friends suggest different places to go, and It has just been a really great thing because we focus on something during the week that is new to us. And it's been a great adventure. I would recommend it for anybody.
SPEAKER 05 :
Okay, and when I see them, and you go on these little outings, and I know Bob loves puzzles, and you went to Boulder to a puzzle company that makes wooden puzzles, which is a very unique thing because they have masters that are helping to carve these pieces, and they were so beautiful. And I never would have thought of that. And I believe you did like a Celestial Tea one in Boulder. But wherever you are, like around the world, even on a trip, you'll post these fun little field trips. And it really is a great idea. There was a group that I was in in Los Angeles, and it was called Live Like a Tourist in L.A. or something like that, or See L.A. Like a Tourist. Oh, that's great. And they'd have all of these outings. And as you can imagine, in the greater metropolitan area of Southern California, all the cool things like the La Brea Tar Pits or even just the, you know, the Getty, because they changed their, you know, their displays. And then they had a Getty Museum. I don't know if they still have it, but it was like this phenomenal beach house, this... like mediterranean estate in malibu and you could go there but you had to it was small so only a certain amount of people could go but and then just like really neat houses like um the hearst castle you could you know drive up the coast to see but all of these things that get your mind going but when you say you want to learn something new every week is it just your field trip or are you also attempting to learn things in other ways as well
SPEAKER 04 :
Oh, you know that John Wooden is one of my very favorite people. The best. And one of his quotes that I especially like is, when you stop learning, you're dead.
SPEAKER 02 :
Oh, wow.
SPEAKER 04 :
And it's just so important to learn something. Even if for me, to learn how to open the darn jar or open the darn... Those Amazon packages come very tight. It's the little things. It's the little things. And the fact that we live in Colorado, and I've been here 56 years, all these places that Bob and I have been going to, they're all new to us. We have not gone there before. Well, that's ridiculous. For example, Hammond's Candies here in Denver is the season here for Christmas. They make that ribbon candy. And it's the kind of candy that, for my generation, it was our grandma's candy always. And they do this very short tour, and it's a very small family-owned business. Or there's the Legacy Pie Company, which is great. It's up on, I think it's 38th and Tennyson. It's a small family-owned, but they make homemade pies. And all of these places have been around since. But I've never visited them, and so it's been very good for us. And as far as learning, it's so important to do it every day, every day.
SPEAKER 05 :
You posted that, too, and that's what I love about you. Here you are in your – and I know how old you are. You and my mom are about the same age.
SPEAKER 04 :
I'm thankful to be 80, turned 80 this year. Okay. It was so exciting.
SPEAKER 05 :
Very thankful for every day. is that you know how to post all these things. So you take the photos, you know how to use social media, you get out there and you post these things. And I think it's so neat because here I am, I could be your daughter, right? And I'm following you for all of the interesting things you do. And I'm like, wait, I want to do this too. I love a good adventure. And even if like, I've never been to the Mother Cabrini Shrine. Oh, there's one more that I have to tell you about. That Bishop's Castle. Have you been to that Bishop's Castle before?
SPEAKER 04 :
Is that the one on the way up to Boulder?
SPEAKER 05 :
Okay, I don't think that's the one, but what I read the other day is this man, he built it by himself. It's phenomenal, and he just passed, and they had a fundraiser going to get him a special wheelchair a year or two ago so that he could finally travel and see Colorado because he said all of these years of him building... building this castle largely on his own and he would go off and find the rocks and dig them up because he didn't really have the money for the materials and it is mind blowing there's even like a dragon on top that can spew fire I don't know if it still does but it's really an architectural like feat of some you know significance because he did this largely on his own and he did it into his 80s and It did pretty much handicap him in the end because of all the years that he spent building this thing. It is worth looking up. It is Jim Bishop, and the castle is, I just remembered, Rye, Colorado. All right, Michelle, changing gears, you are always telling me what a great retirement saver your husband is. And as many of us are preparing for retirement, the data shows that employees are underestimating the costs of health care and other necessities of retirement. And today we are talking to an expert, Kai Walker. head of retirement research and inclusion transformation with Bank of America. Welcome, Kai. Hi, Angie.
SPEAKER 07 :
Thank you for having me.
SPEAKER 05 :
Well, I think, oh, you're welcome. I think a lot of us are looking for, you know, ways to improve our retirement savings. Do you have any tips we can start off with for employees who are looking to, you know, boost their savings?
SPEAKER 07 :
I sure do. And this is a great time of year to begin thinking about this. So I've got three tips that anyone can take advantage of. So the first is, to the extent that your employer is offering a retirement program, such as a 401 , be sure to take advantage and contribute to that 401 program. It's an easy and efficient way to begin making contributions and saving towards that retirement nest egg you seek to build. And secondly, to the extent that you're contributing to that 401 plan, many employers will also match your contributions by way of making a corporate contribution. that's free money to you and don't leave that on the table so begin contributing to your phone k plan definitely many employers are offering sort of educational tools resources many of your listeners perhaps have used online tools and calculators projection tools to make sure you're on track towards your retirement goal your employer is offering those types of resources as well we have charged to you and then the last thing i'll mention is to the extent that you may may have More questions, perhaps a unique set of needs or challenges. Maybe consider talking and speaking with a financial professional. Again, to your employer, many employers are offering access to financial advisors and counselors that can help guide you and navigate you through some of those more complex needs and get you on the way to a successful retirement journey.
SPEAKER 05 :
I love that. When you talk about the free money, I remember when I worked at NBC in Los Angeles, it was my first big job. I was there for over a decade and there was an older writer producer that was retiring during my time there. And I love the company matching because IBM owned us at the time. And it was like, here I am in my 20s. And this guy is complaining as he's going through his retirement stuff and his meeting. He said, I can't believe we had company matching all these years and I never did it. And I'm like, oh, my gosh, it was like 35 years.
SPEAKER 07 :
Wow. Yeah. I tell my kids today who are just starting out in their career. be sure to start contributing to your 401k plan and try to max out as much as possible.
SPEAKER 05 :
Yes, absolutely. And it's crazy because that 10, you know, that over a decade, that's when I really did a huge chunk of, you know, my retirement, just, you know, 20 to 30 or 21 to 31 or whatever. So yeah, I'm glad you're telling your kids that, me too. So in terms of employees, making sure that they're prepared for health care costs i think we really underestimate that one of my kids was just hit by a red light runner and um just the er bill and the um ambulance which i think was 40 grand you know i mean that's just that's not even the surgery that's not even the the physical therapy people don't realize how quickly a hundred thousand dollars adds up it can just be a you know a one quick thing
SPEAKER 07 :
Yeah, I'm so sorry to hear that. Hopefully your son is okay. Oh, yeah, he's actually doing really well. Thank you. I think we underestimate what can take place. So the first thing I would say, let's be real and have a healthy dose of reality here. One is the fact that we're all living longer, and it's not inconceivable that we could live to 100 years old. So think about spending 30, 40, 50 years in retirement, and think of all the health care expenditures that will come along eventually. the journey along the way. The second thing is, I think we tend to underestimate, to your very good point, the expenses that we might incur in retirement. For the average couple retiring at the age of 65, they can plan to spend in out-of-pocket expenses alone around $350,000 in the course of their retirement. So we're living longer, health care will be more expensive, and in fact, health care costs tend to outpace the rate of inflation. And therefore, it would be good to be prepared, have a plan. And part of that plan, again, going back to the employer, is looking at the employer benefits that might be available to you, including something called a health savings account or HSA. It's a very tax efficient way to sock away dollars to save for health care costs. And you can use those health care savings to fund your health care expenses while in retirement. It's triple tax deferred, which means the contributions go in tax free. They grow tax free. And to the extent you cover health care costs, they come out tax free.
SPEAKER 05 :
Yeah, I love those two words that you're using so much. They're tax free. Those are really beneficial to all of us. So let's talk a little bit more about, you know, some people don't have like a plan. They don't like tailor make their, you know, plan. Give us some more ideas there, because I think a lot of people just think they're going to end up at a healthy retirement, but there's no plan. They're just like, well, I'll do company matching and I'll take some money out of my check. But sometimes it takes a little more than that. And also like your investments while your money is sitting in its retirement count all those years as well.
SPEAKER 07 :
Yeah, I think your point is a really good one. I do think you do have to plan. I think you have to perhaps even incorporate your family into that planning in terms of What are your desires and decisions around health care? I'm sorry, retirement and health care. And what happens to the extent you become incapacitated? What plans do you have in place to have loved ones take care of you? Maybe long-term care insurance is a factor or an issue. So having a plan around those activities that are part and parcel to one's retirement are vitally important. And I would say it really starts with making sure you've got the appropriate documentation in place. So having a living will, having a health care proxy. Do you have a set of trust documents? Does your family understand what your desires are for when that inevitable time comes where perhaps you aren't able to care for yourself along with saving for retirement? So those are all vitally important. I think it takes a village to help you navigate those waters, incorporate the help of a financial professional again if needed,
SPEAKER 05 :
ensure that your entire family is on the same page in terms of your wishes and desires well obviously you know this is something you have a passion for and a lot of experience in and you can tell just by this you know interview we've done how beneficial it is to have an expert you know give you advice if you want to find out more where do we go for more information yeah I would direct you to a website called better money habits calm it is absolutely free to you and your family and
SPEAKER 07 :
It can help you with everything from setting up a basic budget to savings and to the topics of our conversation, saving towards retirement, how to create those documentation around your wills and wishes. And so bettermoneyhabits.com.
SPEAKER 05 :
I love it. Thank you so much, Kai Walker.
SPEAKER 07 :
My pleasure. Thank you. Happy holidays.
SPEAKER 05 :
You too.
SPEAKER 01 :
Thank you for listening to The Good News with Angie Austin on AM670 KLTT.