Join us as we explore a powerful passage from Matthew and unravel the complex concepts of discipleship and eternity. Our hosts present historical examples to highlight the occasional folly of worldly gain over spiritual rewards. Also, learn more about how the Grace Evangelical Society is working to bring clarity and insight through events and resources aimed at enriching your understanding of the Bible.
The following is a listener supported ministry from the Grace Evangelical Society.
SPEAKER 02 :
Why do some Bible teachers and preachers talk about following Christ and use that term synonymously for being eternally saved? What is the danger or downside of conflating justification and sanctification? Well, if you’re wondering about that, you’ve tuned in the right day. Thank you for joining us, friend. This is Grace in Focus from the Grace Evangelical Society. Find out more about the Grace Evangelical Society by visiting us at faithalone.org. There on the site we have many articles, hundreds of articles that we have written or collected about many Bible topics, especially free grace. You can also find and subscribe to our blogs there. And we also would love for you to go to our bookstore. Bob Wilkins’ latest book, The Gospel is Still Under Siege, is available there. So browse on over to faithalone.org. Now with today’s question and answer discussion, here are Bob Wilkin and Mike Lee.
SPEAKER 01 :
All right, we have a question from Silver, one of our YouTube viewers today. And Silver is asking about the passage where Jesus told people to take up their cross, deny themselves, and follow him. And Silver asks, is this a clear indication of lordship salvation to be the correct saving faith?
SPEAKER 03 :
This is one of my favorite discipleship passages in the Bible. It’s a terrific passage. And some people think, well, I’m calling it a discipleship passage because I can’t tolerate it being an evangelistic passage. No, I’m calling it a discipleship passage because it is a discipleship passage. Now, some people say that the call to discipleship is the call to salvation. For example, the subtitle of the first two editions of John MacArthur’s The Gospel According to Jesus say, what did Jesus mean when he said, follow me? So that’s a discipleship. Or Dr. James Montgomery Boyce of 10th Presbyterian Church in Philadelphia, he wrote a book called Christ’s Call to Discipleship. And it’s all about evangelism because he sees that as a call to everlasting life.
SPEAKER 01 :
Yeah, basically anyone who holds the lordship salvation makes the claim that being a disciple is the same thing as being a believer.
SPEAKER 03 :
Exactly. In fact, I had a debate back in 1986 or 87 with a fellow faculty member at then Multnomah School of the Bible. And the head of the theology department, Dr. Al Baylis, came to me and said, you know, the difference between you and the person you’re debating is you think that justification and sanctification are distinct. They may be those who are justified should be sanctified, but you don’t see any necessary connection. But the person you’re debating sees those two as merged together. And there is no sanctification without justification. There’s no justification without sanctification. They’re both merged together. And I think he was right. Very insightful comment. This was before the gospel according to Jesus came out.
SPEAKER 01 :
Yeah. And then there are those who will merge salvation and discipleship. Is that any of the requirements to being a disciple are also requirements to be saved?
SPEAKER 03 :
Right. And that’s the same as merging justification to sanctification, because the call to discipleship is a call to sanctification. But why don’t you read Matthew 16, 24 to 27, and we can talk about it.
SPEAKER 01 :
Then Jesus said to his disciples, If anyone desires to come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me. For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake will find it. For what profit is it to a man if he gains the whole world and loses his own soul? Or what will a man give in exchange for his soul? For the Son of Man will come in the glory of his Father with his angels, and then he will reward each according to his works.
SPEAKER 03 :
Okay, so a couple things to notice. First of all, notice it begins with, if anyone desires to come after me, let him deny himself, take up his cross, and follow me. It’s important he doesn’t say, if anyone wishes to come to me. In John’s Gospel, for example, John 6.35, coming to Jesus is believing in him. But coming after Jesus is a discipleship concept. Notice earlier in the passage, Jesus is speaking and he says, who do men say that I am? And they give various answers. And then who do you say that I am? And Simon Peter says, you are the Christ, the son of the living God. And Jesus then said, blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, son of Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my father who is in heaven. So clearly he’s born again. Clearly he gets it. And yet when Jesus goes on and says he’s going to Jerusalem and he’s going to be killed in verse 21, he rebukes Jesus and says, far be it from you, Lord, this shall not happen to you. Jesus wasn’t making a prediction. Jesus was telling what was going to happen. Jesus knew the future. He was prophesying. And so when Peter says this, Jesus says, get behind me, Satan. You are an offense to me for you are not mindful of the things of God, but the things of men. That’s why it’s appropriate for him to say to Peter, a born again person, if anyone wishes to come after me, let him deny himself. Peter needs to deny himself. Well, what is it Peter wanted? Dr. Walvoord says in his commentary on Matthew that what Peter wanted was glory now. He wanted the kingdom now. He didn’t want delay. He didn’t want Jesus to die on the cross and then some delay of seven years if it’s the time of Jacob’s trouble, or in this case, a couple thousand years between then. He wanted glory right then. And what Dr. Walvoord says is this is about the fact that suffering precedes glory. And so the disciples did deny themselves, take up their crosses and follow him. We see it when we read the book of Acts. And they were rejoicing. They were counted worthy to suffer for Jesus. And by the way, I’ve heard verses 25 and 26 uses evangelistic verses. It grieves me because people are contradicting John 3, 16 and the clear teaching of the Lord. For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it. This is talking about finding fullness of life. Here and now, but ultimately, in light of verse 27, in the life to come. And then the same word used for life in verse 25 is translated soul in 26, and it should still be translated life. For what profit is it if a man gains the whole world and loses his own life? Or what will a man give in exchange for his life?
SPEAKER 02 :
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SPEAKER 03 :
I think of someone like Richard Nixon. He was the head of the major power in the world. He was probably the most powerful man in the world. And because he was covering up Watergate and he was going through all these shenanigans, he ended up losing the presidency and losing his prestige. And the same thing happened with Bill Clinton. Bill Clinton was the leader of the free world. He was having an affair with an intern. And as a result, he ended up getting impeached. He ended up being disbarred. He did keep the presidency, but his reputation was sullied. Even though he somewhat restored his reputation, that still kind of hangs over him. He’s kind of an example of someone who gained the whole world and forfeited his life.
SPEAKER 01 :
They’re kind of wasted opportunities that they have. Yeah.
SPEAKER 03 :
And in the case of Clinton, I’m convinced he’s born again. Billy Graham talks about him in his autobiography. And Nixon came from a Christian background. I don’t know if he ever believed in the promise of everlasting life, but I think it’s quite possible he did at some point. So both of these men could be people we’ll see in the kingdom. But they’ve ruined their reputations, both of them.
SPEAKER 01 :
So the key to understanding these two verses is that the life being spoken of here isn’t our eternal destiny and the salvation or being saved, saving one’s life isn’t being saved in the eternal salvation sense.
SPEAKER 03 :
No, and you can see that because deny yourself, take up your cross, and follow me isn’t whoever believes in him should not perish but has everlasting life. You can’t harmonize this with Ephesians 2, 8, and 9. By grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. Denying yourself, taking up your cross, and following Christ just clearly works. And when he’s saying about you’ve got to lay down your life, that’s what would work. And then he says in verse 27, notice, for the Son of Man will come in the glory of his Father with his angels, and then he will reward each according to his what? Works. Yeah. So how can you harmonize this with Ephesians 2, 8, and 9 unless you say this isn’t talking about the same thing? This isn’t talking about regeneration. This is talking about discipleship, and this is ultimately looking for the believer at the judgment seat of Christ, where we’ll be recompensed according to our works. It also applies to the unbeliever, because unbelievers will be recompensed according to their works, the great white throne judgment. But either way, it’s a recompense.
SPEAKER 01 :
And who’s the primary audience that Jesus is speaking these words to?
SPEAKER 03 :
Speaking to the 12. Of course, Judas was not a believer and evidently did not come to faith. He was the son of perdition. So the primary audience here was the 11. But we’re the audience too. Any believer has become part of the audience because Matthew puts it in here as a discipleship teaching for all of us.
SPEAKER 01 :
And Matthew was written primarily for believers, unlike the Gospel of John. Do we find this passage in the Gospel of John?
SPEAKER 03 :
No. John 20, 30, and 31 say he wrote to unbelievers that they might come to faith and have life in Christ’s name. But Matthew, Mark, and Luke are writing to believers that they might follow Christ in discipleship, have eternal rewards, and have blessings in this life.
SPEAKER 01 :
So this passage has nothing to do with eternal salvation. It actually is for a believer how they can have an abundant life here and now and in eternity being rewarded because of their works.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, I mean, you can compare this to verses like Galatians 6, 6 through 9. Do not be deceived. God is not mocked. For whatever man sows, that will he also reap. That’s obviously not the language of Ephesians 2, 8, 9 or John 3, 16. And he goes on to say the one who sows to the spirit will reap everlasting life, which I take it refers to fullness of everlasting life, which is what this passage is about. And the one who sows to the flesh will of the flesh reap corruption. And then he says, let us not grow weary while doing good. For in due time we’ll reap if we don’t lose heart. Believers are eternally secure, but the reaping requires we not lose heart. The ruling and reigning with Christ means we’ve got to endure.
SPEAKER 01 :
So this passage doesn’t teach lordship salvation, but it does teach lordship sanctification.
SPEAKER 03 :
It teaches lordship sanctification, lordship following Christ, lordship discipleship. That’s right. And by the way, we don’t make Jesus Lord. He is Lord. He’s Lord of the unbeliever. He’s Lord of the carnal believer. He’s Lord of the spiritual believer. He’s Lord of everyone and everything. He’s the Lord of Satan. He’s the Lord of all the fallen angels, all the unfallen angels, all the creatures on the planet. The planets, the stars, he’s the Lord of everything. He even names the stars, right? So God is great and God is good and following him is the only path that makes sense. And that’s what Matthew 16, 24 to 27 is saying. Saying, look, follow me and you’ll have fullness of life.
SPEAKER 01 :
And part of that is, let’s all keep grace in focus.
SPEAKER 02 :
Be sure to check out our daily blogs at faithalone.org. They are short and full of great teaching, just like what you’ve heard today. Find them at faithalone.org resources blog. We would love to hear from you. Maybe you’ve got a question, comment, or some feedback. If you do, please don’t hesitate to send us a message. Here’s our email address. It’s radio at faithalone.org. That’s radio at faithalone.org. And when you do, very important, please let us know your radio station call letters and the city of your location. On our next episode, did John the Baptist doubt that Jesus was the Messiah? Please join us for that. And until then, let’s keep grace in focus.
SPEAKER 01 :
The preceding has been a listener supported ministry from the Grace Evangelical Society.
