In this compelling episode, Dr. James Dobson and co-host Roger Marsh continue their dialogue with Lisa Bevere. They delve into the spiritual ramifications of ignoring biblical truth in favor of cultural narratives. Lisa shares personal stories and biblical insights that highlight the need to return to foundational principles of faith and family. Don’t miss this eye-opening discussion that calls for an authentic and impactful Christian life.
Welcome everyone to Family Talk. It’s a ministry of the James Dobson Family Institute supported by listeners just like you. I’m Dr. James Dobson and I’m thrilled that you’ve joined us. Well, welcome back to Family Talk. I’m Roger Marsh, sitting in the co-host chair once again, and we are getting into day two of our conversation with author Lisa Bevere to discuss her brand new book called The Fight for Female, Reclaiming Our Divine Identity. Lisa, welcome back to Family Talk. I’m excited to dive into a bit more of this book and this very, very important topic.
SPEAKER 01 :
Yeah, I feel like we just scratched the surface.
SPEAKER 03 :
You have a chapter in this book that I love because I like words and word origins. And the fact that you wrote a chapter called The Fight for Common Sense and Common Language is huge, I think, because there are a lot of people who are coming into this conversation. And I’m so grateful I could see these Gen Alpha girls saying, thank you for giving us a weapon that we can use to fight in the culture war. Not in a, we’re going to win and own the internet and dunk on everybody online and that type of thing. But rather to say, hey, look, the name of the game here is you’re going into the lake of fire if you don’t hear this right. And you’re making some very passionate decisions based on the way you feel as opposed to what truth is. Talk about why… We are, you know, in a situation right now where I’ve got a quote from your book, The Fight for Female, where you say the degradation of words weakens our language, in turn weakens our connections, twisting the meaning of words beyond the structure of language. When the meanings of words are compromised, our ability to understand and communicate is undermined. Unpack that for us, if you would.
SPEAKER 01 :
Do you know I had more attacks from my editor on that chapter than any other chapter?
SPEAKER 03 :
Really?
SPEAKER 01 :
Yeah. So it was actually a lot longer at one point. Crazy but true. The publisher sent it to a sensitivity readers.
SPEAKER 03 :
Oh my goodness. I’m not laughing at, I’m laughing with, it’s like, oh my goodness.
SPEAKER 01 :
The sensitivity readers were very offended by my use of the word nonsense. And I had this entire segment. I’m just going to share it with you, Roger, because I feel like you’ll appreciate it. It didn’t get to make it to the book, but… When I was looking at the tower of Babel, I realized that the deconstruction of when God multiplied the languages, of course, it created a deconstruction of the people that were all one in one place, united in purpose. And of course, they were disobedient. They’re like, hey, we’re just going to do this. Like, we know God said, fill the earth. I’m sorry, we’re going to build a skyscraper. And the plan for the tower had actually changed. a plan that at the very top, it had a statute with a raised hand defying God. And I looked into the midrash of the reason. Why? Why build a skyscraper? Well, they never wanted to have the flood take them out again. So they decided they were going to go higher than any judgment that God might have on them. Isn’t that fascinating?
SPEAKER 03 :
The rainbow wasn’t good enough for them? I mean, seriously. Yeah.
SPEAKER 01 :
While I was researching, because I love to research and I do my own research because I actually feel like I’m on a treasure hunt. I discovered that they’re considering rebuilding the tower and it’s in Iraq. And when I saw the base of the tower that they had unearthed, it had drawings of the dragons I saw in my dreams.
SPEAKER 03 :
Wow.
SPEAKER 01 :
Is that crazy? Is that crazy? Yeah.
SPEAKER 03 :
It’s crazy. And yet at the same time, Lisa, as you were describing that dream earlier, which is in your book, The Fight for Female, about these women with these dragons that are dressed like small children, you know what I mean? And they’re treating them that way. Look at what the culture has done in terms of just the way we treat animals.
SPEAKER 01 :
We have a dog and I love her, but she’s a dog.
SPEAKER 03 :
She’s a dog. Thank you.
SPEAKER 01 :
Yeah, she’s a dog. And my grandkids are people and my dog is a dog.
SPEAKER 03 :
And if you were and you’re faced with a situation where you had to choose between saving one or the other, it’s a no contest.
SPEAKER 01 :
But you know there’s been conversations where people said they’d save their dog.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER 01 :
Over a stranger. And here’s the thing. This is a Romans 1 moment where the Bible is so clear where all creation declares the existence of God.
SPEAKER 03 :
Amen.
SPEAKER 01 :
Whether it’s the stars, whether it’s a child, whether it’s a plant, everything in creation points to a creator. Everything, everything. And it says that none of us have an excuse. You know, if we look at the stars, if we look at the mountains, when I lived in Colorado, every single day I would say, there’s a God higher than I. Like, it would just pull on your heart. So everything in creation declares that God is, but it says in Romans, and I’m quoting probably a mixture of ESV and messages because I’ve read them both so much, so forgive me. But basically it says, refusing to worship God. they soon didn’t know how to be human either and this is women didn’t know how to be women and men didn’t know how to be men so when we forget how to be human we become inhumane and then women don’t know how to be women and men don’t know how to be men and people are like oh the judgment of god is coming the judgment of god first here is when we lose we lose our humanity And are confused about who we are, how we relate to one another, how we relate to the Creator. You know, and again, of course, Romans goes all the way through. And then I love that you picked up at two where God says, hey, but don’t judge because… God is actually saying, if you know better, you need to do better. And I’m very simplifying Romans 2, 1 through 6. I love how the message says God is kind, but he is not soft. In kindness, he takes us firmly by the hand and leads us into a radical life change. transformation or life change. So yes, for me, words are so important. Last year, I’d already written the book and I was speaking at a cultural summit, amazing cultural summit here in Nashville. And the speaker before me was a brilliant Belgian psychoanalyst, statistician, and expert in totalitarianism. I remember thinking, gosh, I hope he goes to the bathroom when I get up. I just like this guy, he’s obviously brilliant. His name was Matthias. I mean, I was like, oh wow, he has a Belgian accent. He’s a professor. And, you know, I listened to him and he was just brilliant. And then I got up and I shared a photo of my family. And then I talked about, actually about the t-shirt incident. And he asked, can I go to lunch with you, your husband, and your children? And I said, absolutely. And so we go to lunch with him. And he says, I saw your family. He said, family is beautiful. I want to hear. I was like, well, as long as you’re not psychoanalyzing us at lunch, we’ll go with this. And so he just was so curious about God. He was so curious about a God who could love each of us uniquely. And we talked about some of those things. And so I decided to do a podcast with him. And I interviewed him about totalitarianism. This would have been maybe in May last year. So, you know, we haven’t had elections or anything. And I asked him, you know, tell me, he told me Belgium had just fell off the cliff. And so I said, well, we’re in America and riding that way. What would you say to us? And he said, violence and protests justify totalitarianism. And I said, okay, so what do we do? And he said, well, Clear, consistent, courageous conversations.
SPEAKER 03 :
Ooh.
SPEAKER 01 :
And that’s what you and I are having right now.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yes.
SPEAKER 01 :
That’s what we lost during the pandemic. People did not have clear, consistent, courageous conversations. And when we finished the podcast, I thought, wait a minute. In the book of Acts, what did they do? They went from house to house. Now, they met in the temple.
SPEAKER 02 :
Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER 01 :
But then they went from house to house and discussed the apostles’ doctrine. And so what happens around a table is incredibly sacred. And we have lost the art of conversation with people we don’t agree with. people that don’t look like us, people that don’t come from the same spaces. And we Christians, of all people who are ambassadors of heaven walking the face of the earth, who have the best news ever, we better be skillful in our ability to have conversations and having them in a way where we aren’t telling people what to think, but how to think. And I think sometimes that means we ask questions.
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, you know, one of the things we were just discussing here, Lisa, when you mentioned that this is a Romans 1 moment for you, and with a side order of Romans 2, 1 through 6, is I kept thinking, yeah, but we’re living in a culture where a lot of Christians think it’s a Romans 13 moment, where we’re supposed to, well, the government tells us to do this, so we’ll just do it, and we’ll go along to get along, and get along to go along. And we don’t really have that sense of what does it mean to live Christianly in an unbelieving world? And one of your quotes in the book, The Fight for Female, you say the current famine of common sense and the meteoric rise of foolishness are intricately connected with our spiritual decline. I mean, how many people are thinking, well, we got the election right. You know, even though half the country voted one way and half the country voted the other, it was different in the electoral college. So since we got that right now, we just kind of cool our jets and let God do the rest of the work. And that’s not what I’m hearing you say at all.
SPEAKER 01 :
No, I actually feel like right now we have a reprieve and we have a window. Revelation chapter three, I think it’s verse eight, where it says, God says, I’ll set a door before you that no man can shut. First of all, he opens up with, I see your work. And I think right now is our time to work. And God is saying, I’m going to open a door. Don’t hesitate on the threshold. Don’t go back to your sofa. Don’t, you know, like, let’s get through that door because there is a moment. And here, I mean, I’m thrilled about some of the declarations, the executive saying there’s only two genders, that we’re not financing trans surgeries anymore in the military. We’re not doing, like, I’m thrilled about that. But you’re right. There’s going to be people that are going to be like, but wait a minute. We’ve been believing this is an answer forever. to all of our pain for so long, it’s been put in front of us. I remember just reading about, you know, Jacob, how he had the whole idea of, I’m going to take solid sheep, but I’m going to, I’m going to Nick this wood and I’m going to make it spotted and speckled. And when the strong ones come to feed, I’m going to put it in front of them when the weak ones. And so I feel like we’ve had a lot of spotted and speckled information sent to a generation where, where they reproduce because where they’re feeding is not at the table. They’re feeding out of this and they’re in the highways and byways out there. So we need to be skilled in our conversation. And I, it sounds like you actually read my book. So I’m, I had a conversation. with a billionaire. I don’t know that people necessarily like to have confrontational conversations with a billionaire, but I had been invited up to Colorado. I was at this amazing ranch called Lost Valley Ranch. And it was all these beautiful young girls who are called the young guns. They’re the up and coming content creators, influencers, authors, ministers. And they brought me up as the old rifle. I told my husband,
SPEAKER 03 :
Not the old rifle. It’s the only old person.
SPEAKER 01 :
I was like, I’m the only grandmother. I’m the only person with gray hair. I’m the only person over 50. I mean, so there were like all 40 and under and then me.
SPEAKER 03 :
The seasoned veteran. Yes.
SPEAKER 01 :
I was getting up early and I was drinking caffeine. And one of the young girls who’s a billionaire- approached me and she said, can I ask you some questions? I said, absolutely. Can I drink more caffeine? And she said, if Jesus was sitting here with us and my friend who believes she was born in the wrong body was sitting here, what would he say to her? And I thought he would say, have more coffee. I was like, why were we, it was 6 30 AM. This is a post 10 AM conversation. And I just looked at her and I, and I knew the first thing that Jesus would say is I love you.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah.
SPEAKER 01 :
It’s always his first.
SPEAKER 03 :
Right.
SPEAKER 01 :
I love you. And then he would say, number two, you’re not a mistake. And then I said, I believe third, he would say, I understand it. She was like, wait, are you saying Jesus was transgender? And I’m saying, nope, no, not even close. But I will say that Jesus, There has never been anybody that possibly has the understanding of the uncomfortableness of the human experience more than Jesus. I said he was in heaven and we know that he set aside his divine form. And he emptied himself of his divine privileges and identity. Think about that. And it said he put on flesh. He took on the nature of a servant. Now, all I’ve been is this. And, you know, I’ll just be honest with you, Roger. Every other week, I’m like, I feel betrayed by my body. I’m like, where did that creepy skin come from? Like, that is not me. I look at the outside. But Jesus, the son of God. puts on flesh, becomes us so we can become like him. And I said, so if he, and also Hebrews tells us that we do not have a high priest that is not touched with compassion. He understands the frailty, understands it, or flesh. Now, understanding doesn’t mean we validate lies. Understanding says, hey, I understand everything. I don’t know what happened to this friend. I don’t know if she was sexually molested. I don’t know what happened. He can say, baby girl, I know it’s uncomfortable, but you’re not a mistake. And the life you are living right now is just deceit of who you really are. Because who we really are, Roger, is not this. And we need to stop preaching that this is everything. This is a vapor. This is a vapor. And this is like, we seem to have forgotten that we live for eternity. I planted a tomato, well, I would say tomato jungle by accident. I was used to Colorado where things have a short growing period. And I planted way too many plants way too close together in our yard. And I was just thinking about if you look at a tomato seed, in the seed, you don’t see the tomato. But Paul is so clear. that our mortal bodies are the seed of the immortal. And that first the natural, then the supernatural or the immortal. We’re preaching that what goes into the ground to die so that we can be resurrected, that is everything, instead of this is everything. And, you know, the apostles had an awareness of eternity. Jesus said, hey, I’m going away to prepare a place for you. He didn’t say this is the place for you. He said, I’m going away to prepare a place for you. And somehow we heard this is my place. This is my space. This is my place. These are my people. I live to please this rather than I live to please him.
SPEAKER 03 :
You know, it’s so powerful when you think about that. First of all, because I hate tomatoes. I mean, I really just don’t like them. I eat them. I endure them. But I love ketchup. I don’t like tomatoes. But I love the fact that tomatoes don’t… You’re obviously an Italian. No, no. And you know, it’s kind of a Scottish, Hispanic background. But what’s interesting to me about tomatoes is they’re done, but they’re not. I mean, every time I cut them open, I think when I was younger, I thought, well, it looks like it’s still kind of developing and still kind of growing. It’s a perfect illustration for who we are as Christians. I mean, when you think about it, because sanctification is happening. And so I’m going to remember your cluster of tomatoes. But thinking then about one of the dangers that we have here in the United States. As Christians, which is to think in terms of there’s going to be a new heaven, there’s going to be a new earth, but we really like what we have here. We should be fighting to make sure that everything here right now is kind of on earth as it is in heaven, right? I mean, that’s the way it is. And we can miss what you just talked about. If we spend too much time focusing on let’s make the right now, let’s have the right churches, the right schools, the right politics, the right whatever, without realizing, hey, wait, God’s doing a work in us and he’s rescuing other people from hell. And I love the fact that the fight for female equality doesn’t come across as a, you don’t have a red, white, and blue cover. I mean, I don’t want to sound horrible about that, but it comes across as eternal more than just American or Western.
SPEAKER 01 :
You know, I mean, first of all, I turned it in February of last year. So I am a big believer as being a citizen, we vote. But at the end of the day, as an ambassador of heaven, I have to live different. So I am a citizen. Well, I have a dual citizenship. I don’t know if you know that, Roger, which my family was planning on capitalizing on. They were like, if this just keeps going sideways, we’re all coming with you to Italy. But at the end of the day, we vote for what is the most honoring citizen. of God, but we live in such a way that is the most honoring of kingdom. You know, for me, I’m happy about the election results, but at the end of the day, it’s not about the election returns, it’s about the elect returning. And I think sometimes we forget that is actually more powerful. And that if God is actually able to use our conversations, you know, John and I always say that the highest form of governance is family. I mean, the enemy obviously knows I don’t really care who’s in office. I’m going to destroy family. So if I can have healthy family. It starts to heal my neighborhood. It starts to heal the local church. It starts to heal the city. It starts to heal the state. It starts to heal the nation. But you can put whoever you want in office. And if homes are broken and children are afraid and being abused or being sexualized and marriage is not honored, if it’s not valued, you know, and that’s the other thing is, you know, I’m a child of divorce, right? And my parents, like, you know, divorced wives. I don’t think the Christian church always understands that marriage is a sacrament. It’s a vehicle transformation. It’s catalytic. I mean, I think there’s some sweet single people that God’s like, you don’t need a daily iron sharpens iron, but Lisa does. I mean, Lisa’s going to have to get married.
SPEAKER 03 :
Roger does too, that’s for sure.
SPEAKER 01 :
So you need someone who’s like, uh-uh. And when I got married, I made a covenant. I didn’t make a contract. Right. I made a covenant. And it wasn’t two people. It was three. And God is the one who makes us one. And making somebody one doesn’t make them same. You know, John and I are very passionate about discipleship. Obviously, we have a lot of passion in our family for truth, for discipleship. Sure. But we don’t think that God is ultimately just about pastors. He’s about family because he’s first and foremost a father. And so I feel like the enemy was like, I’m going to make a play for the women because if I can get the women, I’ll get the children. And so he started to undermine the purpose and value of family, whispered to the men, she’s just a wife. She’s just a mother, whispered to the women, oh, you’re missing something out there. You should be working for somebody else and a drone in somebody else’s company. I mean, just the breakdown of the family that has been going on. And when I looked at this whole idea of how it had been systematically set in motion since 1969, I was in shock. But I’m old enough to remember that.
SPEAKER 03 :
And there’s still that passion that you have for women of all generations. And also, too, this fight for female that you’ve written about in this brand new book is something that is it’s for the family. It’s for men and women. It’s for everyone in the body of Christ. And as we bring our time to a close, Lisa, would you be so kind as to lead us in a word of prayer, not only for the women and girls who are in the fight for female, but the guys who are being impacted by this as well, who can come alongside each other. men and women together and say, we want to reclaim what God had intended for us.
SPEAKER 01 :
Yes. Heavenly Father, we come to you in the name of Jesus. And Father, I just thank you for every woman and every man. I thank you that you wove us in wonder and you wove us for its time. We are not a mistake that you were intimately involved in our formation. And Father, we break any idea that male is unnecessary, that male is toxic, that male is an afterthought. We break any idea that feminine is something to be controlled, something to be silenced, something to be shamed. Father, forgive us for listening to the lies of culture. And Jesus, just bring healing to the body of Christ. Holy Spirit, show us the areas where we have partnered with lies and listened to half-truths, where we’ve given culture more weight than the words of your kingdom.
SPEAKER 02 :
Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER 01 :
And Father, let us press in. This is a time of rescue. This is a generation. This is children that are at risk. And so open our eyes to see what’s in the shadows. We are not wrestling with flesh and blood. So if we can name them and see them, they’re not a problem. But we are wrestling. So let us war in the spirit. Let us war by reading the scripture, not just what other people post, but reading the scripture until it reads us. And Father, just have your way in our life that we would be transformed more and more into the image of Jesus Christ and not some social justice idol, but the image of courage and kindness blended in Jesus Christ. Amen.
SPEAKER 03 :
Amen and amen. Well, a huge thank you to Lisa Bevere for being with us today here on Dr. James Dobson’s Family Talk. And Lisa, thank you so much for the work that you’ve done with this outstanding book called The Fight for Female. This powerful conversation about God’s divine design for women and Lisa’s passionate call to reclaim biblical womanhood reminds us that true identity is found not in the culture, but in our Creator’s perfect plan. Now, by the way, if you missed any portion of today’s broadcast, or if you’d like to share this biblical perspective with a friend who needs to hear it, go to drjamesdobson.org forward slash family talk. Once you’re there, you’ll find the complete program, parts one and two, along with information about Lisa Bevere’s book called The Fight for Female. And Bevere is spelled B-E-V-E-R-E. Again, you’ll find that information at drjamesdobson.org or on the Family Talk app. And speaking of apps, we have a special arrangement with YouVersion, the creator of the Bible app. And if you’re looking for daily inspiration to strengthen your faith journey, you’ve got to check out the free reading plans Dr. Dobson has prepared for you. For marriage and parenting, there are more than 50 of these plans, and we keep adding more all the time. More than 140,000 people so far have taken advantage of these plans on the YouVersion Bible app. and I encourage you to do the same. Open the Bible app on your phone or tablet, search for Dr. James Dobson, and begin your first reading plan today. I guarantee you, you won’t stop at just one. Again, that’s the Bible app by you version. Search the app, open it up on your tablet or smartphone, and then look for Dr. James Dobson, and you can begin your first reading plan even today. And by the way, here at the Dr. James Dobson Family Institute, we are standing firm in defending God’s unchanging truth about male and female identity, even as our culture tries to blur these divine distinctions. In a world that increasingly rejects basic biological reality, we remain committed to proclaiming biblical truth about gender, about marriage, and about family. If you believe as we do that God’s design for male and female must be protected and preserved for future generations, please consider partnering with us today. Go to drjamesdobson.org, make a secure donation online, or call us at 877-732-6825. That’s 877-732-6825. Thank you so much for your faithful prayers and your consistent financial support. It’s deeply needed and greatly appreciated. Well, I’m Roger Marsh, and on behalf of Dr. James Dobson and all of us here at Family Talk and the James Dobson Family Institute, thanks so much for listening today. Be sure to join us again next time right here for another edition of Dr. James Dobson’s Family Talk, the voice you trust for the family you love. This has been a presentation of the Dr. James Dobson Family Institute.
