Lisa Bevere returns to Family Talk for a captivating discussion on the cultural challenges faced by the Church today. Explore the spiritual warfare manifested in modern gender controversies and discover the power of biblical truth in reclaiming our divine identity. With warmth and candor, Lisa offers a clarion call to courage and kindness, urging believers to stand firm without compromising compassion. Don’t miss this inspiring episode that equips you with the wisdom needed to navigate complex societal issues.
Well, hello, everyone. I’m James Dobson, and you’re listening to Family Talk, a listener-supported ministry. In fact, thank you so much for being part of that support for James Dobson Family Institute.
SPEAKER 01 :
We’ll be right back. We’ll be right back. Well, to speak more about this fight today, our guest on the program is Lisa Bevere. She is a bestselling author and international speaker and the co-founder of Messenger International, which is a ministry that exists to develop uncompromising followers of Christ who transform the world. Lisa has written an outstanding new book called The Fight for Female, Reclaiming Our Divine Identity, which we’re going to be discussing today. Lisa and her husband, John, have four grown sons. They have nine grandchildren and they make their home in Tennessee. Lisa, welcome to Family Talk. We’re so glad to have you with us today. And Dr. Dobson and his wife, Shirley, send their warmest regards as well.
SPEAKER 03 :
I am so honored to join you.
SPEAKER 01 :
Lisa, take just a moment before we get into this book, because this is a book that I’m sure was a tough one for you to write. It was probably one that we’re scratching our heads and saying, why on earth would we need a book called The Fight for Female? But you make some excellent points in the book. But for those who are listening and hearing your voice for the first time, can you give us just a brief overview? How did you come to faith? How did Messenger get started? I realize that’s a horrible 60-second question to ask, but give us some of the highlights, if you would.
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, I got born again and led to the Lord between my junior and senior year in college at Purdue University. My husband, my now husband, who I’ve been married to for 43 years this year, shared with me the spiritual laws. And I realized I am on the throne of my life. And that is why I’m in such a mess. I had never heard the gospel. I interrupted him. He was doing his whole speech. And I said, I need to do this. And so I got born again back in the day. I’m 65 this year. Back in the day when we got born again, we actually were told that God had a plan for our life. And so in a moment’s time, I went from someone who had no purpose. no plan, nothing but sabotaging every year of my life to surrendering. I said, God, I don’t know what that plan is, but whatever you have for me, I want all of it. And I never imagined that God would bring me into a place where we’d be traveling and speaking and that I would actually be traveling and speaking to the people that I least wanted to travel and speak to, which was women. I was always like, hey, I like guys. They say what they mean, mean what they say. But these women, I’m so confused. And I found myself, Roger, I know this sounds terrible, more confused by Christian women than I even was by my sorority sisters.
SPEAKER 01 :
Interesting.
SPEAKER 03 :
And so I just kind of went on this journey of what is my value? as a daughter of God. What does that mean to my ability to contribute for God’s plan on my life? And so I actually was a young mother staying home and I found myself on this journey. I wrote my first book when I was dealing with issues of control. I was trying to control everything in my life and I found out control is an illusion. I wasn’t controlling anything and I had become a Out of control. I, you know, again, I came from a very broken background. My parents were married, divorced, remarried each other and divorced again.
SPEAKER 02 :
Oh my.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah. My dad’s a hundred percent Sicilian. Now he’s, he’s in heaven now, but alcoholic, serial adulterer. My mom was very broken. So I knew how I didn’t want to do marriage.
SPEAKER 02 :
Yeah.
SPEAKER 03 :
But I didn’t know how to do marriage. You find out pretty quick that knowing what you don’t want to do isn’t enough to build what you do want to do. And so I started to just kind of write in my prayer journals things about my own journey and never imagined they were going to end up being books. And my husband and I, we wrote books, we were traveling and speaking. And then about 15 years ago, John was like, I want to give away resources to pastors and leaders that don’t have what we have in the United States. I mean, Roger, you and I, at any given moment, we can listen to a podcast. We can buy a book. We can read something online. In an instant, I can have a book in my Kindle. And John said, I want to give away more books than we sell. And I was like, that is the stupidest thing I’ve ever heard. We’re going to crash and burn. To date, we have given away over 70 million resources in 133 languages. We have an app that just last week hit 3 million downloads. Like over 240 countries, which I didn’t even know there was that many. And just God has been faithful. And our heart is to disciples. So Messenger International, MessengerX.com. free app, taking discipleship resources to people who have nothing.
SPEAKER 01 :
It’s interesting to hear you say, especially I was resonating in a couple of things. First and foremost, my wife is doing a master’s online through Purdue. So we’re kind of had this Boilermaker connection here and I don’t know how she picked it. I mean, she’s in IT and she just happened to pick it, but you guys could have great time swapping Boilermaker stories.
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, John has his mechanical engineering degree from Purdue.
SPEAKER 01 :
Oh my goodness. Well, and that makes sense. That makes sense to me with all the different tech people. And then there’s me. So thanks for letting me be part of the conversation as well. Well, let’s, let’s get into this now because the woman who has been called to this ministry and so many women have resonated with what you’re saying. And you shared earlier something that I hear a lot, which is, gosh, it’s kind of tough to minister to women because sometimes they’re the tough ones to minister to. You open your book, The Fight for Female, retelling about a dream that you had about 10 years ago. Talk about what the premise of the dream was and and how that relates to what we’re experiencing in the culture right now.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah. Well, whenever people tell me, God talks to you through dreams, that’s so amazing. I’m like, sometimes I think that’s the only way you can get my attention. I mean, don’t think I’m hyper-spiritual. Think maybe I’m not paying attention. But I had a dream and I entered a green room of women. And in my dream, I noticed that all the women were kind of coddling something close to their chest. And when I leaned in closer, Roger, I realized they were all different rainbow colored or jewel toned baby dragons dressed in children’s clothing. They’re all green, ruby red, sapphire blue. And I remember thinking, wait a minute, these are dragons. And so it was one of those bizarre dreams where I went from person to person. I’d be like, do you understand? That’s a dragon. And the women would say, oh, no, these are different dragons. These are the wise, kind dragons. And I thought, no, no, there is no agreement between daughters and dragons. And near the end of the dream, a woman thrust her dragon towards me. I can see it had this ridiculous ruffle around its neck, like an Elizabethan ruffle.
SPEAKER 02 :
Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER 03 :
And I reach out, I grab the baby dragon by the neck and I break its neck and I wake up and I’m on my back. My hands are flying. So whatever had happened in my dream had entered the physical realm. I was like, that was terrifying. I open up my laptop and I type it all out. And I send it off like, does someone have this? And everybody’s like, that’s just weird. Like none of us have this. It’s 2016. But it was so real, Roger, that I mean, I can still see it. I still can see the color of the dragon that I broke, all of that. And so I’d written it down. And then time goes on, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019. First time I start to hear about it. Transgender parents agreeing that their children are a mistake, that young girls being told, well, maybe you’re a boy in junior high. And I thought back to my own life. I thought, wait a minute, if someone had come to me in junior high. when my parents were going through their first divorce. And I was a late developer, not to mention that junior high may be the most uncomfortable time period of anybody’s life as a child and said, hey, maybe you’re in the wrong body. I would have said everything else in my life is wrong. You’re probably correct. And I started to notice that women were agreeing with it. That women were like, oh, you know, yeah, let’s share our bathrooms with men who are dressed like women. Okay, you know, it’s sad, but yes, men can play. Biological men can play in girls’ sports. And Roger, if I posted or reposted anything about we need to protect young girls in female sports, so many of the Christians would get mad at me. This is hate. This is mean. And I just had to make a decision. Like, there’s certain things we do not compromise on. And for me… The image of God in male and female was one of them. And I thought, why is the enemy of our souls trying to blend the genders? Why is he trying to undermine biological sex? And when I really prayed into it, Roger, I had such a sense that, first of all, the enemy always has a scheme. But his scheme was, if he could get an entire generation to believe their formation was a mistake… then maybe they could never trust God with their transformation. And so I started to really dive into the scriptures and say, why does this matter? What is going on? And I found myself in this incredible journey that I had never expected to go on.
SPEAKER 01 :
It’s remarkable talking with Lisa Bevere today here on Dr. James Dobson’s Family Talk. The book is called The Fight for Female, Reclaiming Our Divine Identity. And, you know, it’s interesting that you have a chapter in this book, Lisa, as you were just describing this whole transgender battle, the chapter called The Fight for Generations. You have a quote in here that just really hit me right between the eyes, especially as you were just sharing now what you’ve been sharing about this issue, where you said, what God makes is not ours to unmake. Now that you’ve got a generation, I think they call it Generation Z or maybe it’s Generation Alpha, where 20 percent of the population believes that they’re transgender or they identify, quote unquote, with a transgender issue. How do you start to begin to impart this wisdom to people who think that there’s something wrong with you and me for telling them that God’s plan is right versus how they’re feeling right now? Because that’s what their friends are doing.
SPEAKER 03 :
You hit on the key, feeling. We have watched social media take an entire generation emotional hostage. We watched what happened during the COVID isolation. People stopped having constructive conversations and they started to just be argumentative and attacking online. When I travel and speak, I say, I believe there were two pandemics first. released in 2020, COVID and cowardice. People were so concerned about being canceled that they were quiet. And when the Christians are quiet, then there’s a lack of clarity. And a lack of clarity is very unkind. And so what we have is this generation that has been told lie after lie after lie. And when you see it on your phone enough times, you begin to believe a lie is truth. But this has been a constant repetition of you’d be happier if you were this. If you look like this, if you felt like this, if you were a boy, you’d be safe. For me, and I love that you positioned everything with it’s ultimately attack on women. Because if I decided tomorrow that I was a man and I went into a male bathroom, no man is going to be at risk. He’s not going to be threatened by my physical presence in sports. But women are at risk of injury. Women are at risk. And what we’ve also done is we’ve said that femininity is a costume that is just a sexual presentation.
SPEAKER 02 :
Right.
SPEAKER 03 :
Instead of actually honoring what it is to be a mother, to be a female, to have God weave you and to say, I’m not an accident. I had a moment in the coffee shop here in Franklin and I was wearing a T-shirt that said the future is male and female. And I forgot I was in a Christian bubble. And so I had, you know, some people saying. Wow, I love that t-shirt. Guys were like, thank you. Thank you for including us in the future. I was like, I’ve got you. And so I was like, everybody’s happy about this. So Roger, I took a selfie of myself in the car. And of course, the t-shirt said, the future is male and female. And then I wrote underneath it, because without male and female, there is no future. 922 comments later. People were like, you are a homophobe, transphobe, bigot, Karen, demon of hate, co-signing with patriarchy. I even got called a racist for that. How was that racial? I mean, people went crazy. And this is one thing that I learned, especially with all of this. When something doesn’t make sense and when something is this emotionally charged, there’s something darker behind it. So I just went into Google and I typed in, what is the origins of the quote, the future is female? And a 1975 lesbian separatist group came up called Labras. Labras is the two-headed axe carried by the Greek and Roman goddesses, as well as the Amazons. And the front of the T-shirt said, the future is female. The back of it said, keep your labras sharpened. And it was the axis, okay? And they said, this is a Washington Post article, I believe it was from 2016, but it might have been 2015, said that the quote, the future is female, was a call to war. an invocation, and a spell to cast.
SPEAKER 01 :
Wow.
SPEAKER 03 :
I mean, can you even believe they said that?
SPEAKER 01 :
Oh, my goodness.
SPEAKER 03 :
A spell to cast. 25% of the proceeds, not profits, go to Planned Parenthood.
SPEAKER 02 :
Of course.
SPEAKER 03 :
So they had, yeah, blood sacrifice. And Hillary brought it into her campaign. So she reinvigorated that. And so it was shortly after that. I live, which I love, 30 seconds from six of my grandkids.
SPEAKER 02 :
Wow.
SPEAKER 03 :
And my grandson just kind of, he was 14 at the time. He just knocks on the front door, walks in. I think this is what happens. They’re like, mom, can I have something to eat? Mom said, no, you’re going to run your dinner. They get on the bike. They’re riding.
SPEAKER 02 :
Of course.
SPEAKER 03 :
The entire grandmother opens up the pantry. And so he’s rifling through eating all the snacks. And I said, Asher, what are your thoughts on the quote? The future is female. And he paused. He looked at me and he said that I’m unnecessary. And Roger, do you know what’s happening to the young men right now? 24 to 35, they have never had this high of a suicide rate. They are not getting married. They cannot figure out their purpose in life. They don’t know how to behave in the company of women. They are having more virtual sex than actual sex. They are addicted to pornography. They don’t know how to have healthy formed relationships. with other males, with females, with works, with their parents, they are trapped. And I was like, whoa, this is an attack on women because women are supposed to be that it’s not good for a man to be alone. We’re supposed to be that thing that comes alongside the man and makes what is not good alone. So very, very good together.
SPEAKER 01 :
Yeah. That is so powerful for us to try to get our arms around. And one of the quotes you have in your book, Lisa Bevere, that I think is so powerful is what I see in the culture right now, and I think a lot of people do too, is we see the church trying to stand biblical ground against this war. And many times they’re saying, well, now, wait a minute. I want to be a good neighbor. I want to be a good friend. I want to be understanding. As much as it pertains to me, I want to live peaceably with all people. But you have a quote in your book, The Fight for Female, where you say, look, the enemy will not be placated. If you yield an inch, he will not stop at a mile. I mean, this is really serious, the spiritual warfare manifesting in the physical, isn’t it, Lisa?
SPEAKER 03 :
Absolutely. And I love that you said spiritual warfare. It’s so funny. I have never had so much spiritual warfare as when I decided to write this book.
SPEAKER 02 :
Really?
SPEAKER 03 :
I had some crazy woman accusing me of actually being a man and fathering children for her. Oh my gosh. I mean, she was even calling my children and my children, like we saw the photos, like we remember all of this. She’s our mom. Then I had a horrific bike accident, concussion, broken ribs, lost all of the skin on my hands, my elbows, my knees. Ouch. I broke my toes. Ouch. I got so mad. It was so obvious that it was demonic, but I also had my Christian friends afraid to say anything. They know, they agree with me. They just refuse to say it. I mean, it’s just like, I’m like, at what point did we decide that we were going to placate a social media audience? And, you know, I had one pastor say something to me recently that has just, I’m like, I’m going to let this frame my life. He said, if they can’t cancel you, They’ll try to control you. And I’m at this point in my life where God calls me, then I answer to him. Now, do I want to always say it with kindness and clarity? And yes, I do. I want to have those kinds of conversations, but I also want to have a biblical foundation because it is not kindness to agree with a lie. And in my book, I refer to it as petting a dragon. Like you don’t say, oh, that’s safe. You can think that. Oh, you can have your own truth. No, no, no. There is not my truth, your truth. There is the truth. Even with this election last year, it was so interesting. My husband and I used to say, vote your convictions. And then we realized people don’t have convictions because they don’t read scripture. So people have opinions. And they adopted a lot of others’ opinions, but convictions come from the word of God. That’s how we set up our nation. That’s how we, if we’re believers, that’s how we set up our life. The conviction from the scripture. Grounds our life. And then those convictions, they guardian our actions. But the church is all about feelings. Like, I don’t want people to feel sad because I said a boy can’t be a girl or a man can’t be a woman or a woman can’t be a man. I don’t know if the church had been wise and if the church had been courageous. And I have to add in kind.
SPEAKER 02 :
Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER 03 :
If the church had good theology instead of good preaching, I think if the church had said, what does scripture say? Does scripture say there’s 52 different genders, identities? Or does scripture say God made them male and female in his image? And when we deny God’s handiwork in our life, in our creation, we say not just that we’re a mistake, but that he is mistaken. It is an undermining of the image of God. And I know that people don’t like it, but it’s crazy is more and more people want to actually be able to speak the truth in love. And I feel like this book and this message has resonated. I was just in Delaware this weekend. It was sold out. Like they told me, they said, oh, like I kind of got trapped in the sanctuary. People asking me questions. And I’ll just say these precious Gen Alphas coming up to me, 14, 15-year-old girls saying, you know what they said to me, Roger? They said, we feel like you put a weapon in our hands.
SPEAKER 01 :
Ooh, wow.
SPEAKER 03 :
And they said, but you didn’t do it mean. We just need to be… clear without being cruel. And so I feel like that’s kind of been the pushback by some ministers because you’ll see people mocking. We don’t mock, but we do mark. We don’t call people out. We call them up. And so we need to say, what does God’s word say? Who’s on the Lord’s side? And again, I understand, but it’s cowardice. And people forget that cowards are mentioned in the lake of fire.
SPEAKER 01 :
Oh, this is terrible. It’s terrible and it’s good. It’s wonderful. I remember Larry Crabb one time describing a cancer battle as a horribly wonderful time. And it sounds like that’s kind of where we are in the culture. And I appreciate, Lisa Bevere, you’re saying so much in your book, The Fight for Female, that we can be clear without being cruel. I mean, when we think about Romans 2, you know, and Paul saying it’s God’s kindness that does what? That leads us to repentance.
SPEAKER 02 :
Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER 01 :
But it starts with kindness. It starts with mercy. It starts with grace. And we’ve got so much more to talk about. And we would love to have you back on to continue this conversation. Can you join us again next time?
SPEAKER 03 :
Absolutely.
SPEAKER 01 :
OK, we will do so. Another conversation with Lisa Bevere talking about her brand new book, The Fight for Female, coming up on the next edition of Dr. James Dobson’s Family Talk. While the enemy’s attacks on God’s design for male and female threaten us all, but we can stand firm in biblical truth with both courage and compassion. You’ve been listening to this special edition of Dr. James Dobson’s Family Talk and a powerful conversation with author Lisa Bevere about reclaiming our divine identity in an increasingly confused culture. Now, if you missed any portion of today’s broadcast or you want to share it with a friend, go to drjamesdobson.org forward slash family talk.org. Or visit us on the Family Talk app. We have the complete program available on our website along with a link for information on how you can get a copy of Lisa Bevere’s book called The Fight for Female. You’ll find all that information at drjamesdobson.org. you’re looking for more biblical encouragement i want to encourage you to visit our plans on the bible app by you version no matter what your busy schedule looks like these brief devotionals written by dr dobson offer practical wisdom for navigating today’s cultural challenges while staying grounded in god’s truth we’ve heard from so many listeners who appreciate having quick and easy access to dr dobson’s insights on marriage and parenting on their smartphone using the Bible app by YouVersion. To get started, just open up the Bible app on your mobile device, your phone or your tablet, and search for Dr. James Dobson. You will be glad you did. And finally, please remember that in today’s culture, many organizations shy away from speaking biblical truth about God’s design for men and women. But here at the Dr. James Dobson Family Institute, we are committed, Dr. James Dobson, all the way down the line. We’re committed to boldly sharing biblical truth about our God-given identity. If you’ve appreciated today’s program about biblical womanhood, please consider taking a stand with us by partnering with us financially. These daily broadcasts are made possible through the generous support of friends just like you who hold the same values we do and value a living, trusted voice defending biblical truth. That voice, of course, being Dr. James Dobson’s. You can give a gift online at drjamesdobson.org. You can also give a gift over the phone when you call 877-732-6825. Or if you prefer to send your donation through the mail, our ministry mailing address is drjamesdobsonsfamilytalk.org. P.O. Box 39000, Colorado Springs, Colorado. The zip code 80949. Again, our ministry mailing address is Dr. James Dobson’s Family Talk, or you can just put JDFI for short. P.O. Box 39000, Colorado Springs, Colorado. The zip code 80949. Well, I’m Roger Marsh, and on behalf of Dr. Dobson and the entire team here at the JDFI, thanks so much for listening today. We invite you back for part two of our conversation with Lisa Bevere with more discussion about her brand new book called The Fight for Female. That’s coming up right here on the next edition of Dr. James Dobson’s Family Talk, the voice you trust for the family you love. This has been a presentation of the Dr. James Dobson Family Institute.
