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Washington Watch covers the diverse and concerning themes currently impacting the United States. Host Jody Heiss discusses the ethical and political implications of the Supreme Court potentially allowing states like South Carolina to defund Planned Parenthood from Medicaid programs. Alliance Defending Freedom’s John Birch explains the far-reaching consequences this decision could have for states across the nation. Moreover, the episode highlights a special segment on cultural and political trends anticipated for 2025. Renowned researcher George Barna explores the evolving political landscape, the shifting media trust, and decreasing church trust levels that affect the cultural fabric. FRC’s continuous efforts to
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from the heart of our nation’s capital in Washington, D.C., bringing compelling interviews, insightful analysis, taking you beyond the headlines and sound bites into conversations with our nation’s leaders and newsmakers, all from a biblical worldview. Sitting in for Tony is today’s host, Jody Heiss.
SPEAKER 04 :
Good afternoon and welcome to this Thursday edition of Washington Watch. I’m Jody Heiss, Senior Vice President here at the Family Research Council and President of FRC Action. It is indeed an honor as always to be sitting in for Tony and thrilled to have you on board with us as well. We’ve got a lot coming your way. In fact, yet again, breaking news is occurring even as we speak, and we’ll bring it to you as it unfolds, if it happens to unfold during the next hour. So here are the highlights. Less than 24 hours after President-elect Trump spoke up against the spending package that was negotiated by congressional leaders. And that was unveiled just the night before, by the way. But a new deal has now been announced. And this deal has already received the approval of President-elect Trump, who actually went out on social media a little while ago, and he said the following. Speaker Mike Johnson and the House have come to a very good deal for the American people. The newly agreed American Relief Act of 2024 will keep the government open, fund our great farmers and others, and provide relief for those severely impacted by the devastating hurricanes. The president-elect ended the post by saying all Republicans and even Democrats should do what is best for our country and vote yes for this bill tonight. Well, according to what we just literally heard just minutes before going on the air, the vote is expected later tonight, perhaps as soon as 6 o’clock Eastern Time. And that’s just 30 hours from the potential midnight shutdown tomorrow. So is this bill going to pass? That is a huge, huge question, and I’ll be joined here in just a moment by Mark Tapscott, who’s the senior congressional correspondent at the Epoch Times, and he will bring us absolutely the latest on what’s happening with the CR. And then yesterday, the Federal Aviation Administration decided to temporarily ban drone flights over several areas across New Jersey until January 17th of next year. Now, they said that this move is due to special security concerns. But now, wait a minute. Didn’t the Biden administration claim that these mysterious drones that have been spotted all across New Jersey and other nearby states, that they do not present a national security or public safety risk? So which is it? Do the drones present a security issue or don’t they? Well, I’ll be discussing this later in the program when I’m joined by retired CIA operations officer Sam Faddis. So you certainly want to catch that. And a new development in South Carolina’s fight to defund Planned Parenthood. The case is now headed to the U.S. Supreme Court. And ADF attorney John Birch will join me to discuss the latest on that critical case. And then at the end of the program today, I’ll be joined by Dr. George Barna to discuss some of the issues and the developments to watch for as we enter into 2025. So as always, and seems like as of late, this program is going to not only be packed with news, but potentially with breaking news as the show unfolds. So you don’t want to miss any of it. But if by chance you do, you know where to go to catch up. You can go to our website, TonyPerkins.com, where you can certainly catch this edition as well as past editions of Washington Watch. as well as a number of phenomenal resources that are available for you. So be sure to bookmark that page and use it. And then this Christmas season, before we jump into the program, I just want to remind you yet again, Family Research Council is inviting you to join us as we continue trying to shine the light of biblical truth in Washington, D.C. and beyond. Certainly, we’re living in precarious times. potentially very dangerous times and in the midst of it all a transition of leadership as well as lame duck session of Congress and here we are FRC serving literally as a watchman on the wall trying to protect faith family and freedom from multiple attacks coming from the left and good news and here’s what I want to land this on thanks to a one and a half million dollar challenge match Every dollar that you give to FRC between now and December 31st will be doubled. Yes, you can double your impact, and we encourage you to do so. Come along. Stand with FRC, enabling us to continue literally being a prophetic voice for biblical truth. You can jump on board and double your impact simply by texting the word LIGHT, L-I-G-H-T. Text the word LIGHT. to 67742, and together we can all have an eternal impact. All right, let’s jump into our first topic for the day. As the federal government has been teetering on the brink of a shutdown, the battle over a short-term funding agreement As we all know by now, it came to a head yesterday. In fact, in a statement posted on social media, President-elect Trump and Vice President-elect J.D. Vance, they slammed the proposal yesterday. And they accused people of, if they voted for it, that they would be giving Democrats everything they wanted. But even before President-elect weighed in, the bipartisan deal yesterday was facing sharp criticism. Many were calling it a Kramnibus, and it was just, it was… It was just not going to pass. Well, Speaker Johnson has since been scrambling to find a path forward in a situation that many people said was absolutely impossible. And with less than 33 hours before the potential shutdown, a new deal was announced. And so here we come now to find out what does this new deal look like? And joining me to discuss the latest developments is Mark Tapscott. He’s a senior congressional correspondent. for the Epoch Times. Mark, welcome back to Washington Watch. Great to have you. Congressman, how are you? Okay. Boy, we got a lot to break down. Give me the latest. What do you know right now?
SPEAKER 05 :
Well, we are back at the point of a vote soon, they hope, and it is absolutely uncertain how it’s going to come out. My guess is there will be some Republicans who, Chip Roy, for example, will vote against it. He’s already said he’s a hard no. But there will be some Democrats. I don’t have any that I can name at the moment, but I suspect there are a handful of them who will come over and the bill might pass by one or two votes. It’s absolutely that close. We don’t know.
SPEAKER 04 :
It’s a coin toss right down. In other words, it can go either way. And I agree with you. Before coming on the program, as all this was unfolding and breaking, I was trying to go through in my own mind what the outcome of this would be. And frankly, I’m still trying to get out what’s in this new proposal. But I came to the same conclusion you did. This is an absolute toss-up. Can you tell us some of the difference? I did see a picture of the 1,500-page bill, plus bill, And now this one’s just 116 pages. So it’s vastly decreased in size, but I’ve not had a chance to figure out what’s in it. Can you tell us a little bit of what changes are in this new bill?
SPEAKER 05 :
Well, you know, the first question I have about it is how many pages are in this? Because it looks like it’s probably 50 or 60. That’s a great improvement over 1,500, but still. They have decided to take all of that stuff out that Trump and Musk and Ramaswamy were pointing at, including particularly the congressional pay raise. And they have removed some other things that were getting some real critical commentary from folks. What it looks like we have now is basically keep the government open through mid-March, $100 billion for the disaster relief, especially in North Carolina. Extending the farm bill, and there is apparently a provision for, I don’t quite have all of the details yet, $10 billion in farm credit assistance. You also get the health care provisions that are due to be extended. They get extended. I don’t know what the time limit is on that. And probably the most important or certainly the most significant part of it is President Trump yesterday demanded that the national debt limit be lifted through his entire four-year term. They compromised, and this new continuing resolution suspends it for two years. It will be interesting to see who comes out of this one as the great compromiser.
SPEAKER 04 :
Okay, so you’ve brought up some really good stuff, some quick questions, and you may not have the answers. Again, all this is breaking by the moment. But the $100-plus billion disaster relief that you mentioned, is that paid for, or is that new debt that’s incurred?
SPEAKER 05 :
Oh, that is a great question. And my assumption, quite frankly, Congressman, is that it’s new debt, because the government is operating in a deficit condition in any case. And I’ve heard nothing about any kind of offsets or any of that kind of thing to shift funding from one place over to the disaster relief, which would have a neutral effect on that question.
SPEAKER 04 :
Yeah, that’s going to be interesting because I would certainly think that would be problematic if there’s not a pay-for going into this for a number of Republicans. And there’s tons of wasteful spending, tons of places where it could be pulled. And I’m just going along with you. I don’t know either. I don’t know if there’s pay-for with that. or not. So how likely do you think, and again, perhaps it’s a little unfair to ask you because none of us know, but what’s kind of your gut feeling going into this? Is this strategy in your gut going to succeed, or are we still going to end the night with just hours away from a potential shutdown?
SPEAKER 05 :
I’ll be honest with you, Congressman, and you know this better than I do from your own experience on the floor. In this kind of situation, every man and woman in the House potentially is the Speaker and holds tremendous bargaining power with their vote. And we will not know until the final vote is closed what the count is going to be. My gut says—I do think that Speaker Johnson is— I will be surprised if it doesn’t pass, but if it does, it’s going to be, as I said, one or two votes. And I won’t be surprised if it doesn’t make it.
SPEAKER 04 :
Wow. This is one of those, I would suspect this vote is going to be open for a long time, as there’s going to be, perhaps it doesn’t have the votes initially, and so they’ll just keep it open and just keep trying to sway people to change their vote in that direction. in that scenario. Now, William, I have just less than a minute left. How difficult is the position that Speaker Johnson is in right now? There’s rumors that his position could potentially be in jeopardy. Do you believe that’s a serious scenario?
SPEAKER 05 :
I think it’s a very serious scenario. And just speaking for myself, um, Newt Gingrich said a couple of days ago, I heard him on one of the networks say that he thinks that Mike Johnson has the toughest job in Washington, and it’s far more difficult than the Speaker’s job was when he was Speaker. I agree. That’s absolutely true.
SPEAKER 04 :
Well, I agree with him. Thank you so much, Mark Tapscott, senior congressional correspondent for the Epoch Times. Always great to have you. Thank you for your insight and Merry Christmas to you. All right, friends, after the break, we’ll discuss the mysterious drones. There’s a lot happening in that. Sam Faddis, former CIA operations officer, will join me right after the break.
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During these challenging times for our nation, Family Research Council continues to serve as a watchman on the wall for faith, family, and freedom. And together, thanks to your support, we’re making an eternal impact. 2024 has been another year of shining the light for biblical truth in Washington, D.C. This fall, over 1,000 spiritually active, governance-engaged conservatives gathered for the Pray, Vote, Stand Summit. to pray for our nation and ensure that the issues impacting sage cons were understood and advanced. Washington Watch with Tony Perkins marked a major milestone this year, its 900th episode, and added the Washington Watch News Desk, a new production that presents the top news each day from a biblical worldview. The Washington Stand published 2,000 articles of news, commentary, and podcasts in 2024, garnering over 5 million views. FRC’s outlet for news and commentary continues to pursue the truth on the issues that matter most to you and your family. And with the launch of the Stand Firm app, you can listen to, watch, and read our content in one simple place. Pray for current issues, stay rooted in the scriptures, and engage the political sphere with a community of believers on our new platform. In 2024, FRC shaped public policy and culture, organizing the National Gathering for Prayer and Repentance, where members of Congress and Christian leaders came together to seek God’s intervention in America. In May, FRC called upon believers to pray for and stand with Israel by dedicating a portion of their worship services to pray for Israel’s peace, prosperity, and protection. With Pray, Vote, Stand Decision 2024, FRC and Real Life Network led a powerful evening of election night coverage to analyze the election results and pray that our nation would turn back to God. We also filmed a transformative educational course, God and Government. Launching in January 2025, this series will explore the biblical and historical foundations of our government, empowering you to stand confidently in your role as a citizen of heaven and earth. Family Research Council thanks you for partnering with us for another year of standing for faith, family, and freedom.
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Good afternoon, and welcome back to Washington Watch. I’m your host today, Jody Heiss, sitting in for Tony, and thank you for joining us as well. Before we get to our next guest, let me just say this, and I just didn’t have time to end the previous segment with this comment, but Each of you who are watching and listening right now, you understand what I’m about to say. We are facing an extremely difficult time right now in our country, and this CR is a major battle. And I just want to call on you to pray for Speaker Johnson right now, to pray for our members of Congress. for wisdom, for unity, for them to be able to work through this. And I don’t know if it’s going to pass tonight or not, but even if it does not, the clock continues to tick and something is going to happen. And so we need to bathe this in prayer. And I want to sincerely call upon you to do that for all those who are involved in this right now. And I thank you for doing so. All right, let’s go to our next topic. After weeks now, these mysterious drone sightings in New Jersey and nearby states, and by the way, with claims all the while from the Biden administration that these drones don’t present any kind of national security for public safety or federal safety, the Federal Aviation Administration decided yesterday to temporarily ban all drone flights over 22 areas across New Jersey until January 17th of next year. They said that the move was due to, quote, special security concerns, end quote. So, I mean, all of us are wondering, do the drones present a security risk or don’t they? Well, it’s a legitimate question. And here now to dive deeper into all of this is author Sam Faddis. He’s a retired CIA operations officer. He served in both the Near East and South Asia. He’s also the host of Ground Truth. Sam, welcome back to Washington Watch. It’s an honor to have you.
SPEAKER 18 :
Great to be here. Thank you, sir.
SPEAKER 04 :
All right. Bottom line, let me just throw it out there to you. Who do you think is behind these mysterious drones?
SPEAKER 18 :
Look, I think we should start by looking at the Chinese communists. And look, as a caveat, not everything everybody has reported seeing in the sky is a legitimate drone sighting. There’s a lot of erroneous sightings. There are also some people that I guess think it’s funny to essentially manufacture video and manufacture sound. Okay, so there’s a certain amount of this we got to strip out, but at its heart, you have continued drone sightings that are unexplained that essentially all occur over sensitive U.S. military installations. And this against the backdrop of the fact that the Chinese have been caught red-handed, literally prosecuted, and in some cases, imprisoned for doing this on multiple occasions across the country and around the world. So if I’m investigating this, where do I start? I start with my top suspect, the communist Chinese collecting intelligence.
SPEAKER 04 :
All right, so with that being your view, Obviously, I was going to ask, and I think you just answered it, these drones should be viewed as a threat to our national security, correct?
SPEAKER 18 :
Well, 100%. Look, again, the communist Chinese clearly are at the top of the list. They have a sustained record of flying drones and, for that matter, physically intruding on the ground into military installations, U.S. military installations. That’s known. And what are they doing? They’re collecting intelligence. for use in the event of a shooting war, for sabotage and so forth. There’s no mystery about that. So, I mean, it’s like you’re conducting an investigation for a crime. Somebody knocked over a convenience store and you got a guy that lives down the street who’s been convicted 10 times before for knocking over convenience stores. Is that enough to put him in jail? No, but it’s enough to go knock on his door and start with him as your prime suspect. So let’s just let’s just start right there. I mean, literally, we just put a arrested a guy within the last week out at Vandenberg Space Force Base, a Chinese national flying drones over the base.
SPEAKER 04 :
Good analogy there. Yeah, I wish I had it in front of me. I don’t. I read earlier today that evidently, allegedly, a high altitude balloon was spotted flying over Washington, D.C. today. And of course, that brings back all sorts of memories as well. So there certainly seems to be enough evidence, as you suppose, the guy that takes out the convenience stores. There’s reason to suspect something’s going on here. Doesn’t our response in all of this send a message, a wrong message, not only to the American public, but also to our adversaries as to what we would do with drones?
SPEAKER 18 :
A hundred percent. It sends exactly the wrong message. But, you know, you made reference to balloons. There have been any number of balloons, actually, that clearly came from China. But there’s the one that everybody remembers that circled our nuke bases out in Montana and so forth. This government allowed that intelligence collection device to complete its mission, presumably transmit back to Beijing all the data it collected. And then when they finally took it down, took it down so it ended up in the ocean and no average citizen could see the payload. So we don’t have to guess what the attitude of this government is toward this kind of thing. We’ve seen it with our own eyes. Yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER 04 :
All right. So we have drones there. There are other worldwide threats taking place. What other issues are developing out there that you would consider threats perhaps are not a problem at the moment? Maybe they are, but certainly could devolve into a problem quickly later this year or maybe next year. What are you looking at?
SPEAKER 18 :
Well, given that we’re coming off four years of Joe Biden, everything. But a couple of things that come to mind. The Iranians have been developing nuclear weapons for some time. We don’t know that they don’t already have them or that they won’t have them before Trump is in the White House. Very real threat. Syria just imploded. Assad is gone. Good riddance. He was a monster, okay? But what has replaced him is essentially a new caliphate, a new radical Islamic state in the heart of the Middle East. So anybody who thinks that now we have a kinder, gentler government in Syria and have turned the corner is misinformed at a minimum.
SPEAKER 04 :
Thank you, Sam Faddis, host of Ground Truth. We are grateful for you coming on and breaking down some of this and giving some of your professional insight on it all. Merry Christmas to you. Thank you for joining us on Washington Watch tonight.
SPEAKER 18 :
Merry Christmas.
SPEAKER 04 :
All right, friends, don’t go anywhere. We have much, much more to bring your way. Coming up next, should Medicaid dollars, those are funds intended to help low-income individuals obtain necessary medical assistance, should Medicaid dollars be allowed to go into the pocket of Planned Parenthood so that they can perform abortions in the name of so-called health care? Wow. Alliance Defending Freedom’s John Birch will join me to discuss that after the break.
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So if you like to think and you like to pray, FRC is the place for you.
SPEAKER 07 :
I think it is the best program out there.
SPEAKER 11 :
Yeah, I’ve absolutely loved my experience interning at FRC.
SPEAKER 07 :
They really are making waves out in the political world and doing it from the light of the Lord.
SPEAKER 06 :
It’s really humbling for me as a college student who has been involved in the life movement for only a couple of years to be able to witness it alongside of some of the people who have spent their entire lives fighting. A huge thing that sets FRC’s internship apart from others is they are looking for what they can pour into you instead of what they can get out of you.
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I have talked to so many of my friends who have interned. other places and they’re responding to emails or taking phone calls and doing things like that. But here we get real hands on experience and get to talk to important people and do important things that we get to see the impact of.
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The throne of Jesus Christ is unchallenged. His name was never on the ballot to begin with, and it’s never gonna be on the ballot. He’s the King of Kings and He’s the Lord of Lords, and nothing’s gonna change that. And so our mission stays the same, preach the gospel, make disciples, get ready for heaven. In the meantime, that we’re to advance the concerns of the kingdom of God here on earth.
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SPEAKER 04 :
I’m your host, Jody Heiss. We’re going to be sitting in for Tony today. Thank you for joining us. All right, some really good news yesterday. And by the way, this is a type of news that is kind of being pushed under the rug with all the other big news items that are coming out publicly. But this is a big deal. Yesterday, our nation’s highest court agreed to hear a case that could decide whether pro-life states like South Carolina can direct Medicaid funds away from abortion providers like Planned Parenthood. Those funds are intended to help low-income individuals obtain necessary medical assistance. But should they be used to fund Planned Parenthood? Well, here now to share why South Carolina’s Department of Health and Human Services sued Planned Parenthood is John Birch. He is Senior Counsel and Vice President of Appellate Advocacy at Alliance Defending Freedom. John, welcome back to Washington Watch. We appreciate you coming on.
SPEAKER 13 :
Always happy to be here. Thank you.
SPEAKER 04 :
Okay, so break this down for us, boil it down. What is at the heart of this case?
SPEAKER 13 :
Well, you have to go back almost seven years ago, and South Carolina defunded Planned Parenthood as part of its Medicaid program. Every state takes Medicaid dollars from the federal government and then distributes those to hospitals and doctors and medical facilities all around the state to provide health care for low-income people. And Planned Parenthood demanded a portion of that. Well, states can defund a medical provider from their state program for a variety of reasons, whether that be endangering patients or not following health and safety standards or committing fraud, abuse, and any number of other things. And for several of those reasons, South Carolina defunded Planned Parenthood. Planned Parenthood had the right to file an administrative appeal with the state, but it missed the deadline on that. And so it conspired with one of its patients, its clients to file a federal court lawsuit and got a federal judge to order the state to reinstate Planned Parenthood. And that went up to a court of appeals, which affirmed that. And now the Supreme Court has decided to review the decision and it will decide whether states have the ability to defund Planned Parenthood as part of their Medicaid program.
SPEAKER 04 :
Well, that’s huge. So what would be the implications if the Supreme Court stands with South Carolina?
SPEAKER 13 :
It’s tremendously huge because Planned Parenthood takes taxpayer dollars in states all across the country. And right now, the Federal Court of Appeals are divided over whether states can do that. And so if the Supreme Court would rule in South Carolina’s favor, not only would that give South Carolina the ability to defund Planned Parenthood and use those tax dollars at more comprehensive care clinics to take care of women with a full panoply of services, It would allow many other states to do the same, which are currently prohibited by similar court rulings in their locales.
SPEAKER 04 :
So what’s the process from here as it moves to the Supreme Court? When would a decision be made? When would some oral argument be made? What’s the process?
SPEAKER 13 :
The oral arguments will likely be in April, and because the Supreme Court is usually pretty good about issuing decisions in all of the cases that it hears during a term, we would expect a decision by the end of June.
SPEAKER 04 :
Wow. So this is going to move pretty quickly through the Supreme Court.
SPEAKER 13 :
Yeah, this is very fast. The Supreme Court is usually not a fast player. The legal system is never fast. But if you have a petition granted in December or January, as this one was, then you can actually get through the whole U.S. Supreme Court process pretty quickly. And we feel pretty confident about the Supreme Court’s decision here because it’s got several precedents in the past. interpreting the same provisions of the Medicaid statute that look pretty good for our case. And so our hope is that they’ll vindicate the right of South Carolina and every state to choose where they send their federal funding dollars for Medicaid only to those clinics that protect and support life and women’s health.
SPEAKER 04 :
Is there a state rights issue versus a federal law type issue involved with this? Could that be a complication in all of it?
SPEAKER 13 :
Well, I think that’s something that actually helps South Carolina here, because when Congress enacts a spending clause statute like Medicaid, they offer states money. And if they take it, then they have to follow certain conditions. Then Congress needs to set unambiguously in the statute what the states have to do. And there’s nothing in the Medicaid statute that suggests that states can be sued by Planned Parenthood and their clients in federal court in order to have their funding reinstated. And if the Supreme Court says that Planned Parenthood can’t do that, then the federal lawsuit goes away. Most likely their appeal is time barred and the South Carolina defunding decision would stand.
SPEAKER 04 :
Wow. Incredible. This is huge, and this is one of those news items I think just kind of lost in the fog of all the other news that is so much in front of the line right now. Any idea, we’ve only got about a minute or so left, any idea how many abortions are actually paid through Medicaid funds, be it in South Carolina or nationally?
SPEAKER 13 :
Well, it’s hard to tell because you can’t get a good look at Planned Parenthood’s books. And part of the problem with these funding situations is that they can take money for non-abortion purposes, say providing contraception or something like that, that other medical providers could do equally well or better. And then because they’ve got that money in their operating budget, they can use that to fund abortions. So what South Carolina and other states understand is that if you want to stop Planned Parenthood from committing abortions, you need to squeeze away all of their government funding. And that’s what South Carolina intends to do here.
SPEAKER 04 :
Fantastic. Thank you, John Virch, Senior Counsel and Vice President of Appellate Advocacy at Alliance Defending Freedom, our great friends at ADF. Thank you so much for joining us and for bringing this tremendous news. Again, a prayer item that we want to be supporting in every way that we can. Merry Christmas to you, John. Thanks for joining us today.
SPEAKER 13 :
Merry Christmas. And if folks want to follow the case, they can find out more about it at ADFlegal.org.
SPEAKER 04 :
Fantastic. Thank you, sir. All right. On the other side of the break, FRC’s George Barna is going to be joining me to talk about issues and developments to watch in 2025. A fascinating discussion coming your way right after the break.
SPEAKER 03 :
Hello, I’m Tony Perkins, president of Family Research Council here in Washington, D.C. Behind me is one of the most recognizable buildings in all the world, the U.S. Capitol. What does it stand for? Well, most people say government. But you know, the Bible talks about four institutions of government. You know what they are? And do we have a republic or a democracy? Well, what do you say? Also, what about this thing separation of church and state? Does that mean Christians shouldn’t be involved in government? Guess what? We address those issues and more in our new God and Government course. I invite you to join us to see what the historical record and the Bible has to say about government. Join us for God and Government.
SPEAKER 15 :
Let’s not be discouraged. Don’t lose heart. Don’t lose the faith. Stand now strong because the Lord has given us the great privilege of living in a time when our choices matter, when our lives matter, when our courage matters. So let’s stand together and save this great country. God bless the United States of America.
SPEAKER 17 :
The American Republic has a freedom like no other. It has roots in the scriptures far more than any other heritage. And if we as followers of Jesus and conservatives don’t defend it, who will?
SPEAKER 12 :
Neutrality is not an option. There are many Christians who believe that if we just keep our heads down, if we just don’t say the wrong thing, that somehow we will come out of this unscathed. You’re naive if you think that, because what they want from us is not our silence. What they want from us is our submission.
SPEAKER 01 :
Part of the dilemma of Christianity in our generation is that we’ve relied a little too much on human wisdom and human reasoning, human strength, human resource. and we’ve relied too little on the power of God and God’s ability to open doors that we can’t open and do things that we couldn’t even hope to begin to do.
SPEAKER 08 :
This may not be an easy task, But we are living in a moment of challenge, but also a great opportunity. And we know always that we are not alone, that his spirit empowers us and protects us, and that he can do the unimaginable. Dobbs, after all, was never supposed to happen.
SPEAKER 03 :
Father, we thank you. You have entrusted us with this moment in history, and I pray that we would be found faithful, and that as a result of our faithfulness to you, that thousands, millions would come into the kingdom as they would experience the forgiveness of sin and the new life that is found only in Jesus Christ. Amen.
SPEAKER 04 :
Good afternoon. Welcome back to Washington Watch. I’m your host, Jody Heiss. Honored to be sitting in today for Tony and thanking you again for joining us as well. Before I turn to my next guest, I want to again encourage you to come on board and join Family Research Council in shining the light of biblical truth right here in Washington, D.C. and literally across our entire nation. We all know these are perilous times that we’re living. And FRC is here serving literally as a watchman on the wall. We’re doing everything we can to protect faith, family, and freedom from multiple attacks coming from the left. And we have a very special opportunity right now. Thanks to a $1.5 million challenge match, every single dollar that you give right now up until December 31st, every dollar will be doubled. And so you are able literally to have an oversized impact. So we invite you to come stand with FRC and help us continue to be a prophetic voice for biblical truth. You can do so by texting the word LIGHT, L-I-G-H-T, to 67742. And again, that will enable all of us together to have an eternal impact and to continue to shine the light of biblical truth. All right, as Americans navigate literally through a rapidly evolving cultural and political landscape, there are certain recent trends that reveal that we have both challenges as well as opportunities facing us. On the one hand, for example, we’ve seen that Gen Z is literally bucking the downward trend of Bible engagement. And on the other hand, there’s a troubling rise in things like anxiety and depression and suicide rates. So with all of this, what are some of the issues and developments to be watching as we enter into 2025? Well, I don’t know of anyone better to discuss all of this than Dr. George Barna. He, of course, is the director of research at Arizona Christian University and a senior research fellow right here at FRC’s Center for Biblical Worldview, the author of many, many books, including Raising Spiritual Champions. George, welcome back to Washington Watch. It’s always an honor to have you, my friend.
SPEAKER 16 :
Thanks, Jody. Good to be with you.
SPEAKER 04 :
Well, I look at 2025 just right now on the horizon. No doubt there are many changes that are coming. One of them that hits the top of my mind, obviously, is this is a year that Republicans are going to have control of the White House as well as the Senate and the House of Representatives. And all of this is coming at a time when overall confidence in government is probably at historic lows. And yet the Republicans are coming in promising to make some major, major changes. Is there any way that we might see an increase in trust among the American people with the government?
SPEAKER 16 :
Well, you know, there are a couple of ways of looking at that, Jody. One of those is to say, well, it could easily get higher because it’s so low right now. There’s not too much lower than it can drop. But I would also say that, yeah, it’s going to be difficult to raise that proportion of people who say that they do trust the government. It’s interesting when we study it, you find that the closer the government is to the people, the more trust the people have in it. So almost two-thirds of Americans say that they trust their locals. government and the leaders and officials that are part of that. It drops to about half of the people saying they have an above average level of trust in state government. And it drops down to somewhere between a quarter to a third when you’re talking about the federal government. And of course, as you break that down, if you look at Congress, it’s Less than one out of ten people say that they have a lot of trust in Congress. So, you know, can it get higher? Yes, it can. But it’s going to take some significant steps forward. One of those would be casting a compelling vision of the future for our nations. and describing ways in which everyone in government is going to work together to see that happen. People are tired of the standstill in government. of all the obstacles that they’re seeing there, the outrageous amounts of money being spent, the debt that’s being piled up. And they also have this perception that a huge proportion of public officials are corrupt. And so if we want to change people’s sense of trust in their government, they’re going to have to address those issues full on. They’re going to have to see actual leadership skills demonstrated.
SPEAKER 04 :
Well, yeah, that’s a big hill to climb in the current environment, especially. But it’s not only Congress and government. And I think it’s a great point that the closer government is to home, the higher the trust level. That is tremendous. So that would say to me that smaller government on the federal level would be a huge step in the right direction. But it’s not just government. Also, the trust in the media is something that is often reported on these days. And more and more people… certainly younger generations, but more and more people overall increasingly rely upon social media, personal experience or whatever over traditional institutions of media coverage. Is that likely to change or not change in the coming year?
SPEAKER 16 :
No, I think what we’re going to see is a continued movement away from traditional sources of media, from mainstream media, if you will, toward independent media, where people now, because they at one point in their observations said, you know what, I really can’t trust what I’m getting from these mainstream media sources. It’s not objective. It’s very biased. It doesn’t tell the full story. There is a narrative underlining and undergirding the messaging that they’re giving to me. So I’m going to look elsewhere. And so people have really started testing things. In the last five years, if you look at the trajectory of podcasts, for instance, what you find is that they’ve skyrocketed in terms of their popularity. And what’s happening now is where people used to think about what channels or what news broadcasts or what newspapers or radio programs am I going to tune into? Now what they’re doing instead is they’re searching around for podcasts. They’re searching around for other kinds of media channels on Instagram and Facebook and elsewhere. And they’re putting together a completely new media environment. Is traditional media going to be able to win back their popularity and the sense of trust of Americans? I don’t really see that happening in the next three or four years, at least, because people now have set their minds to the point where they’re saying, I can’t trust them. There’s no reason for me to even listen to them.
SPEAKER 04 :
Wow. So let’s move on from government and from the media. This is one that is very disturbing to me. In fact, to be very honest with you, George, I hate to even bring this up, but there’s also seemingly, at least from my perspective, I’ve seen this in my own family, but an increasing distrust for churches, a lack of trust. We’ve seen so many leaders fall and all this type of stuff. What do you think this next year will holds for the church? Is there anything that they can do to become a greater influence in our culture? Where does that stand?
SPEAKER 16 :
You know, it’s interesting, Jody, because when you look at what’s going on with churches, in some ways it’s very similar to what’s happening with government, where people have less and less trust in the leadership of their churches. They feel like they’re not getting real value from their churches. And as we’ve been evaluating that, one of the things that’s become clear is that often that’s because they feel they’re not being given practical advice, practical guidance, real tangible value for their life. Where does that come from? Well, it would come from preaching God’s word on a consistent basis. and breaking it down for people so that they know how to apply God’s truth principles in their personal life. What we’re hearing is that they don’t feel that the teaching and preaching and programs that they’re getting from the local church is doing a good job of supplying that kind of personal value in their lives. Now, when we look at why would churches move away from that, What we find is that churches tend to evaluate their success in ministry, their impact, based on how many people show up, how many programs they offer, how many staff people they’ve hired, how much money they’re raising, how much square footage they’ve built out. And if you think about those five objectives that most churches in America consistently measure to evaluate their ministry effectiveness… One conclusion we can come to is, well, that’s bound to fail as a set of measures. Why? Because Jesus didn’t die for any of those. That’s not what his life, his ministry, his teaching is all about. And so we’ve gotten away from the Bible, not only in what we’re teaching, but even in how we’re measuring things. success, and impact in ministry. So I would say until churches get back to those kinds of things, we’re going to continue to see things that we’re seeing now, like a consistent decline in church attendance. We’ve gone in the last five years from half of all adults in America attending a church at least once a month on average down to roughly one-third of Americans. That’s a huge drop in a short period of time. And some people would say, well, yeah, that’s because a lot of people are shifting towards streamed church services. We measure that as well. So that’s not the reason. The reason is they’re not getting biblical value from churches. Wow.
SPEAKER 04 :
And this is an extremely important issue because the well-being of our whole culture ultimately comes down to the spiritual health of the culture, which ultimately obviously rests upon the health of the church. And I know some of your studies, George, and this is a great place to interject this, but you have seen a very clear tension between and a relationship between declining church engagement and rising mental health challenges. That’s stunning to me. So how do we, as you just mentioned, what does the church need to do to get people to come back to church? What kind of changes need to be taking place within a church body to fulfill the mission that God has given them to do?
SPEAKER 16 :
You know, Jody, basically that comes back to the whole issue of worldview. Why is it that young people in particular would say that they often are struggling with fear, depression, anxiety, and suicidal thoughts, all of these issues that we’ve been studying, and it comes back to their perspectives about how life works. And so when you’ve got a young adult who doesn’t believe that there’s a God who’s all-knowing, all-powerful, who’s merciful, who’s just, who’s involved and engaged in their lives, when you’ve got generations of people who say that they don’t believe that there’s anything that happens after they die, so they’ve got to live in the moment, that’s all there is, generations of people who say there is no such thing as absolute moral truth, that they’re the only ones who can determine truth for their own lives. And it’s completely dependent on their feelings and their situations and experiences. Well, obviously, they’re going down the wrong pathway for life, not the one that God has prescribed for us, not the one that God has prepared us for, not the one that God wants to guide us through. And so I think, again, it’s imperative that That if either churches or families want to be uplifting, want to be a source of strength and hope and optimism, particularly for younger adults, well, then they’ve got to get back to God’s word. You know, right now, the dominant worldview in America, of course, is syncretism. 92% of Americans are syncretists. only 4% hold to a biblical worldview. And so that huge gap that we’ve got is moving our entire culture in the wrong direction. And it’s up to churches and parents to raise their children up, to understand the truths of scripture, to help their children, to be reading the Bible, to trust the Bible, to know God, to trust Jesus personally, to understand that we’re sinners, to believe that the only way that you can determine success in life isn’t by your material goods, your possessions. It’s not by your fame. It’s not by your popularity. It’s not even by feeling good. It’s about consistent obedience to God. So helping young people in particular to grab onto these things will address the fact that, you know, right now 56% of Gen Z says that they often are overwhelmed by anxiety, depression, fear, and so forth. Or the fact that 44% of Gen Z members say that they’re scared to die. Well, Jesus is the antidote to that. The Bible shows us an alternative way of living to address that. So the more that we can address worldview issues, the more that we can not only rebuild the church, but we can bring back a sense of life and hope and optimism to all Americans.
SPEAKER 04 :
George, fantastic information. This is probably my last question, and we only have a little bit over a minute or so left. But the American Bible Society, I know you’re aware the Bible sales have increased. So people are probably reading the Bible more, but the American Bible Society says that scripture engagement has drastically dropped. So what does that say to us? People, are they looking for answers? They’re maybe not engaging the way they should, but they’re at least buying the Bible.
SPEAKER 16 :
Yeah, but Jody, I mean, it’s like if I’m looking for answers and I speak French and somebody gives me a book in English, I can open it up and look at the pages. It’s really not going to speak to me very effectively. I think the big issue that’s going on in America right now is discipleship. When we talk about worldview development, that’s a discipleship issue. When we talk about people turning to the Bible but not knowing what to do with it, that’s a discipleship issue. And as I look at the research that I’m constantly doing related to how is discipleship working in America, what we’re seeing is that we’ve got major issues. People who are disciples are not spending enough of their time and their energy and and their prayer life engaged in relationships that will enable them to disciple others. The church isn’t going to come back until that happens.
SPEAKER 04 :
Dr. George Barna, thank you so much. Of course, your research is spectacular. We appreciate so much you joining us on Washington Watch. Merry Christmas. Thank you. Same to you, Jody. All right, that wraps up this edition of Washington Watch. Thank you so much for joining us and stay tuned again tomorrow. We’ll be back for more Washington Watch.
SPEAKER 02 :
Washington Watch with Tony Perkins is brought to you by Family Research Council and is entirely listener supported. Portions of the show discussing candidates are brought to you by Family Research Council Action. For more information on anything you heard today or to find out how you can partner with us in our ongoing efforts to promote faith, family and freedom, visit TonyPerkins.com.
