In this episode of Family Talk, join Dr. James Dobson in a profound conversation with the late Dr. Luis Palau, a Christian evangelist known worldwide for his dynamic preaching and commitment to spreading the Gospel. Recorded in 1984, this timeless interview delves into the challenges facing families today, focusing on the emotional and spiritual struggles within marriage. Dr. Palau shares his wisdom on how true fulfillment comes not from our spouses, but from a relationship with Jesus Christ. With honesty and compassion, he offers guidance to those facing the daunting prospect of divorce, highlighting the importance of endurance, obedience,
Hello everyone, I’m James Dobson and you’re listening to Family Talk, which is a division of the James Dobson Family Institute. Today we’re going to hear the second half of an interview with the late Christian evangelist, Dr. Luis Palau. I want you to know the context for this program today. It was recorded in 1984, the first time I had ever met Dr. Palau. And he came to focus on the family, which was only seven years old at the time. And we sat and talked for a while, began to get acquainted. And I learned what a great man he is. I could just sense his wonderful spirit for the Lord. We stood and talked, then we walked into the studio and recorded what is now for us a two-part program. You heard the first part last time, and we’re going to hear the balance today. Dr. Luis Palau was, of course, known around the world. He spoke in Latin America primarily, but in Russia and other places as well. He was associated with the Billy Graham Evangelistic Association, and Billy Graham particularly. They were great friends. The website for Dr. Palau says that he spoke to more than one billion people over the years. That’s just amazing. He’s authored more than 50 books. And his radio broadcasts were heard by millions of people on 3,500 radio stations in 48 countries. So God has used this man, and now he’s with the Lord in heaven. And we have so much to be grateful for. So we’re going to let you hear the balance of the program that was recorded at that time. And stay tuned, because at the end of the broadcast, something special dramatic happened. And I’ll explain that at the end of the program. So let’s listen now to the interview with Dr. Luis Clow in 1984.
SPEAKER 02 :
Luis, last time we were speaking primarily on the decline of the institution of the family around the world. And I was, as you recall, giving you specific problems and asking you then to offer some advice to the people who are facing those difficulties. And we were talking at the end of the program about the man in the marriage relationship and what you feel God is saying to men. And today I want to turn that coin over and get you to talk directly to the women. And especially, again, I want to name a particular problem and a particular woman that we’re going to be talking to. I’d like you to talk to the woman who loves her husband, or at least she used to, But she feels that he isn’t meeting her emotional needs. And she’s been agitated by that and frustrated about it. She has screamed and complained about it and cried about it. And now she’s come to the point where she’s had it. She’s made up her mind to getting a divorce. She’s already met with her attorney. And in a matter of six or eight months, the marriage is going to be over. What do you say to that woman?
SPEAKER 04 :
Well, you know, Jim, we were in a crusade in Central California and at a woman’s luncheon, which I also enjoy sharing. When I’m all alone, no men in the audience, just hundreds of women. I enjoy it because it can open up my heart. And I often say I’m like an older brother or your younger brother. Just look at me as a friend. And a woman got up and sang a hymn. And the line that impressed me was this. Only Jesus satisfies the soul. And although I had a message that day, the Holy Spirit, as this woman was singing, laid it on my heart, and I picked up on that. And my message basically was based on that. That phrase may be old-fashioned, but it’s very contemporary. Today we say, my husband doesn’t fulfill me. What we’re really saying is my soul is unsatisfied. If a woman can understand, no man will ever fulfill you. In fact, I pull a little line and say, do you think I can fulfill you? Can you imagine any ugly man, I mean, going to fulfill a woman? It’s an incredible dream. It’s a straw man that we’ve invented in our day. My wife can’t fulfill me, and I cannot fulfill her. Men and women weren’t created to fulfill each other. Only Jesus satisfies the soul. We were meant to help each other. The Bible does say that. I will make her help a fit for him and vice versa. We are helpers, but fulfillers, never. The basic thought is this. A man will never fulfill a woman, and a woman will never fulfill a man, because that wasn’t God’s intent. His intent was that we should love each other and help each other, but fulfillment only comes when Jesus Christ fills our souls.
SPEAKER 02 :
Did you know that the notion of marriage based on romantic love or an emotional attraction between one individual and another is only as recent as about 1200 A.D.? It did not exist prior to that. Marriage was by arrangement. Marriage was for convenience. Marriage was for alliances between countries and such things. And it was not until the time of Shakespeare that it was really popularized. But today, that emotional component has become the end all and be all of marriage. And if it’s not there even for a short period of time, it’s time to bail out. I think the root cause of the high divorce rate we have is in that notion right there that we are entitled to eternal bliss and some kind of revved up emotional apparatus at all times.
SPEAKER 04 :
And life won’t deliver that. If a woman is going through that awful situation of an unloving, unkind, thoughtless husband, it’s a terrible thing. But if she cannot see a change, cannot she turn that situation around and say, I’m going to give my life for people in the neighborhood? I’m going to try and empathize with women who are suffering. I’m a Christian woman. Therefore, I will turn my agony into a source of good because all of us have conflicts in our home, even the best of us, even me, you know. And therefore, can’t I turn our weaknesses into a strength? By thinking how many people are going through what I’m going through, therefore, I shall learn something of this situation with my wife, Pat, and use it to the glory of God. I have found, Jim, that some of my strongest points in helping other people in counseling or preaching… have been from the greatest weaknesses in our marriage because as I thought about it and learned from it, I have been able to help other people. If I had run away from my wife, which I haven’t thought about, but if I had run away from the tough times, I would not be helping people as much as today.
SPEAKER 02 :
So, so. You know, Lewis, I want to be sensitive to the feelings of the woman who’s listening to us right now who is on the verge of divorce in that way. Because from my counseling experience, I know what she’s feeling. She’s thinking, you don’t understand. You don’t know what it’s like to live with this loveless man. You don’t know what it’s like to not be treated with respect. You don’t know what it’s like to feel like dirt because this man doesn’t show the kind of love that builds self-esteem. And I’m aware of those kind of frustrations. And I don’t want to be glib about that. No. But I do have to say as I read the scriptures, and that is the source of our understanding, that God has not called us to happiness. God has called us to obedience. That’s right. And it may be that he’s called us to endure, to persevere in the face of some frustrating circumstances. And it just might be that he’s got a plan down the road that he hasn’t revealed yet with regard to what he wants to do in the relationship. And what he wants of women and men in that kind of situation, I believe, is to stick it out and make the most of it and stay on our knees before him and let him work through it. You’re so right.
SPEAKER 04 :
I really think you’re giving godly counsel here for sure. Fundamental. You know, the word sacrifice. I was thinking as you were giving that word of advice there, godly advice. The word sacrifice has disappeared. Jesus Christ was spat upon. buffeted, blindfolded, crown of thorns, the nails in his hands and his feet. Therefore, the situation that we have to learn today is that suffering often brings life. Death produces life in God’s economy. The other side of the coin on that suffering aspect is this. A woman can learn to make God her husband. Now, I’m coming back to the original premise. Isaiah 54 says, It says like this, Like a wife of youth when she’s cast off, says your God. Now, although the Lord is addressing Israel, the teaching is there. I think the New Testament bears it out. That if a woman going through what you described can say, my husband is not what I wished he had been when I married him. My husband is not the dream of my youth. My husband has not fulfilled his vows. He is not the man that I dreamt I would give my love to. Nevertheless, for the sake of the Lord, because it’s revealed in Scripture, as you said, I will stay here to see what the Lord is going to bring out of this. then the Lord supplies what the husband does not supply. Now, that’s not escapism. After all, divorce is escapism, too. This kind of escapism is divinely provided, so to speak, in a fallen world.
SPEAKER 02 :
Luis, I’ve seen it happen. It does occur. Yes. And I’ve had women who have taken that approach say, the Lord was incredibly close to me during the time that I needed him most. Right.
SPEAKER 04 :
And, you know, isn’t that the scriptural promise? And then out of it comes a richness that the world will mock. We know that. People who are purely materialistic won’t accept this kind of word. But a woman or a man who loves Jesus Christ will believe that God has a purpose down the road. Now, we’ve got to come back to that. And the previous verse, Jim, says this, “…fear not, for you will not be ashamed.” Be not confounded. You will not be put to shame. You will forget the shame of your youth and the reproach of your widowhood. You will remember no more. In other words, this period of time where it appears like it’s all over may come to an end. As you said, you’ve seen it happen. I’ve seen it happen. And if a person, if a woman would just be patient with the Lord, she will not be ultimately ashamed. God will not allow it. Nor will she be utterly confounded, completely out of joint. The Lord has a purpose. And, you know, I have seen it happen in very close family. And I believe it could happen to the women who are listening to your program. The reference is Isaiah 54, verses 4 through 8. A tremendous promise for women who feel lonely because of a husband that isn’t what he was meant to be, or even for widows, and for the victims of divorce. I would put it that way. Isaiah 54 is a choice chapter. There are some men who are in that situation too, aren’t there? A growing number. Now I’m finding more and more, Jim. After a crusade service, a man will come and you can almost see them coming. Do you know that? There is a look, you know, like when a man goes through shock and his face is pale and his eyes are popping out. You can almost see a man coming whose wife has walked out on him. You know that you can almost sense it. There’s a blankness that is different from a man who’s become a widower. there’s a certain look of despair. And it’s a growing number of men who will come and say, and this passage can be turned around, I believe, for men, that the Lord will fulfill us and that we shouldn’t rush into the next marriage. Do you know, I have seen with my wife, Pat, you know, we don’t counsel as much as you do. And, you know, we have seen some godly young women women now, whose husbands were faithless and walked out on them, but that for the sake of Jesus Christ and using wisdom after all, godly counsel like the kind you give in your books and other godly people, they have said, I will not get married again. I will stick it out. Young women now who would like to be married and who have stuck it out for years because of various reasons. And you know their satisfaction. There is a joy and a glow that returns to their life that is really beautiful. And I really think that we need to emphasize that more and more. That the Lord, only Jesus satisfies the soul. If people would only believe that. Hmm.
SPEAKER 02 :
Okay, Luis, I’m going to change the responsibility now and give you an opportunity to preach to a new group. I’d like you to make some comments to the teenager, boy or girl, who’s involved in a social group that is not Christian. They’re under pressure to do immoral things. Perhaps they’re dating an unchristian boy or girl. And the pressures are enormous. And they know what’s right. They’ve been raised in the faith. They’ve heard their minister talk about the Ten Commandments, and they know what’s right, but they’re having trouble doing it. What do you have to say to them?
SPEAKER 04 :
Well, you know, Jim, I love to address teenagers, too. And when I think of a young person like you describe, I think first – Think of the potential for you as a young fellow, as a young girl. If you follow the Lord’s way, if you trust Him with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding, but depend on the Bible’s wisdom, you shall be successful. You shall have a measure of satisfaction for the rest of your days. I say to the young person going through temptation with a peer group at school that is really pressuring them into sex or drinking or drugs or just playing around, Think of the end of your life. I’ve always had this concept. What will I be when I’m an old man? What regrets will I have if I don’t walk with God? That always haunts me. And I try to get young people to think this way. I’ve tried my four boys to think this way, Jim. Boys, think of the end of your life. And I’ve always used illustrations with my boys. I don’t like to talk negative. But once in a while, when a person, a young person in our neighborhood or even school or perhaps even church has messed up their life as young people, I use it as a model to my boys, as a negative model. I say, now look, boys. The end of their life. They’re going to look back on this failure. And although God may forgive them and they may get up on their feet again, think of the regret that they shall never be able to erase. Forgiveness, yes. But the mistakes cannot be erased. Now, the other thing is this. on going out with a non-Christian. I don’t think it’s being preached so much nowadays, Jim. I think it’s a mistake of us old boys from years ago to think that the young people today don’t even realize that the Bible prohibits marrying a person that isn’t a Christian. I mean, you’ll be surprised how many churches have asked youth directors. They have never taught their young people. I preached in a church that I won’t even hint what it is, a very good Bible church. And when I spoke to young people and I talked about, do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers, the old translation. And I came on strong. You are not, therefore, supposed to go around dating an unbeliever seriously, because if you do, you may, quote, fall in love, unquote, and you may end up marrying them.
SPEAKER 02 :
And the Scripture says no. You set in motion certain consequences that you can’t stop.
SPEAKER 04 :
Yeah, because dating, if you’re… 20% serious eventually is supposed to end up in deeper emotional involvement that eventually should lead to engagement and marriage. Or if you’re weak, it may lead to sexual failure. Okay, you’re not supposed to even consider marrying a non-Christian. The Bible prohibits that. Now, you know, Jim, we mustn’t take for granted most young people in Christian homes don’t know that. It isn’t being taught. We are such a nice—that’s the weakness of the niceness of America, that we don’t want to, quote, hurt anybody’s feelings, unquote, and therefore we don’t want to speak the truth. As far as temptation, you know, Jim, there are times when a young fellow and a girl must break even a circle of friends in school.
SPEAKER 02 :
We do pick up the attitudes and the behaviors of those around us. And to think that an impressionable adolescent is going to be surrounded by non-Christians and not begin to adopt their language and their behavior and their mannerisms and so on. At the very least, it’s putting a strain on the most important thing in his life.
SPEAKER 04 :
You know, interesting, I said to my wife the other day, Jim, we haven’t heard a sermon and I haven’t preached one. Because when I was a boy, it was overdone on love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. I tell you, I don’t think I’ve preached one. I’m embarrassed to say it, except exposition. I heard a lot of them when I was a kid. Yeah, but not today, though. I mean, you’re not a kid now. You notice that.
SPEAKER 02 :
Yeah.
SPEAKER 04 :
Well, but you know, it was overdone, wasn’t it? My mother, for instance, was a sweet lady. She is a sweet lady. I love her. Wonderful example. But she used to go overboard, I think. Now, it’s better to go overboard in separatism than in… Liberality, although the best is balance. We always have a tendency to get more loose, don’t we? But, you know, we don’t tell the kids what it is to love the world today. We love the world too much. You know, now we could spend a whole three weeks on what is the world, but essentially the things that the world loves, the pride of life, The lust of the flesh. The lust of the flesh, over-obsession with looks, over-obsession with worldly success, which makes us imitate what is glittering, but really destroys our soul. I think we’ve got to get back to that. You know, we were saying earlier about not marrying an unbeliever. That isn’t heard anymore today. And so kids do it, and they marry someone who doesn’t even believe in the Lord Jesus Christ because they’re a nice person. And they cross over religious barriers that should never be crossed in marriage. And then the same thing is true of the world. You know, we’re allowing ourselves to flirt with the world too much. And I don’t want to be negative here, but I do believe that it helps our boys and girls if they realize that there is a line to be drawn and that it’s actually exciting to stay within the fences that the Lord has built. The most important thing.
SPEAKER 02 :
There must be somebody who wants what you just described but doesn’t know how to go about it. How about praying for that person who might just pull a car over to the side of the road right now and bow their heads and pray with you as you reach out in faith for all those unseen people out there?
SPEAKER 04 :
Let’s do it. And can I say this, Jim? Jesus said, I stand at your door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come into him and eat with him and he with me. That’s a promise. That’s a promise. So that person in the car or in the kitchen or wherever they are can right now unlatch the door from the inside to their soul and invite Jesus Christ to come in. It’s just as if you, Jim Dobson, go to the door of this person, knock on the door, they look out the window, And they say, oh, my soul is Dr. Dobson. What are we going to do? They have to make a decision. If they want you in the house, all they have to do is just open the door and say, Dr. Dobson, welcome.
SPEAKER 02 :
It’s not complicated. No. You don’t have to go out and pay back all the money you’ve stolen or clean up all the lies. You can do it right now. Right now. You don’t have to earn it.
SPEAKER 04 :
No, sir. And then will come the house cleaners. That’s right. But until they receive Christ, nothing will happen. So if they will bow their heads right now, And I will lead them in a prayer, phrase by phrase. And if a listener wants to open their heart to Christ, they could pray right now and let Jesus Christ come into their heart. Let’s do that. Let’s pray. Thank you, Heavenly Father, for speaking to my heart right now. Thank you that you want to change my life. And I know you have the power to do it. Lord Jesus, I don’t understand it all, but I believe you died for me on the cross. And right now, Lord Jesus, since you rose from the dead and since you’re alive, I open the door of my heart to you. Come into my life, Lord Jesus. Change me. Cleanse me. Make me a true child of God. And I shall serve you and obey you for the rest of my days until I see you face to face in heaven forever. Thank you, Father. You have heard my prayer and Christ lives in my heart. In his name I pray. Amen.
SPEAKER 01 :
Well, amen. You’ve been listening to Dr. James Dobson’s family talk and a timeless conversation featuring Dr. Dobson and his guest, Luis Palau. Now, Dr. Palau’s wisdom reminds us that true satisfaction comes not from perfect relationships, but from the one who created our souls. Dr. Dobson will be back in just a moment with some closing thoughts to share, so do stay with us. First, though, I want to remind you about a special resource we’re making available this month. Dr. James Dobson’s wife Shirley and daughter Danae have written a book called Welcome to Our Table. It’s a wonderful collection of recipes and memories that share how the Dobson family has used their table to feed both bodies as well as souls. Now, we’ll be happy to send you a copy of Welcome to Our Table as our way of thanking you for your gift of any amount in support of the Dr. James Dobson Family Institute today. So give a gift online at drjamesdobson.org. That’s drjamesdobson.org. You can also give a gift over the phone when you call 877-732-6825. That’s 877-732-6825. Or if you prefer, you can send your tax-deductible donation through the U.S. Postal Service. Our ministry mailing address is Dr. James Dobson’s Family Talk, P.O. Box 39000, Colorado Springs, Colorado, the zip code 80949. And now here once again is Dr. James Dobson with some closing thoughts for today’s program.
SPEAKER 03 :
We have been listening to Dr. Luis Palau in an interview that I made with him in 1984. As I said at the top of the program, something dramatic happened that has not occurred in my 44 years on the air. Because I turned to Dr. Palau, you just heard me, ask him to pray a closing prayer for anybody who might be listening who did not know Jesus and to just pull off the freeway, if that’s where they were driving, and into a parking lot and give his heart to the Lord. And lo and behold, there was a man listening to us who later told us that he was driving on the freeway. He pulled off the freeway and went to a parking lot. And as Dr. Plough led him in a prayer of dedication and repentance, he gave his heart to the Lord. That man turned out to be Jim Tallent. Jim Talent is Jewish. He had never had an encounter with Jesus Christ. And that day he made a lifetime commitment to the Lord. And he went on to be a United States senator from Missouri for a number of years, became a very good friend. And it all happened as a result of that prayer by Dr. Palau. Dr. Palau obviously had a great heart for the Lord and for his people. And that’s why he was so loved and appreciated around the world. He’s gone now. And just remember him as one of the great evangelists of all times I hope you’ve enjoyed this classic program this trip down memory lane I wonder if there’s anybody listening to us now who heard that original broadcast it’s been a pleasure having you join us on the air and I do hope that others will come to know the Lord because of it thank you for being with us and we’ll see you next time
SPEAKER 01 :
This has been a presentation of the Dr. James Dobson Family Institute.
