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Join Tony Perkins in this engaging episode as he dives deep into the recent debates surrounding USAID spending and cultural imperialism. Congressman Brandon Gill lends his voice to discuss the complexities of American foreign aid and the ideological implications impacting both the US and global communities. We also explore the silencing of voices in Maine as a state representative is barred from engaging after bold statements on social media about transgender sports. Is this a sign of things to come for freedom of speech in American politics?
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From the heart of our nation’s capital in Washington, D.C., bringing compelling interviews, insightful analysis, taking you beyond the headlines and soundbites into conversations with our nation’s leaders and newsmakers, all from a biblical worldview, Washington Watch with Tony Perkins starts now.
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Do you think that spending $2 million for sex changes and LGBTQ activism in Guatemala is a reflection of American values? The information that you are using is so faulty that it doesn’t even describe the USAID projects. No, that is a direct description of what we’re spending our tax dollars on.
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That was Texas Congressman Brandon Gill questioning Noam Unger during a House committee hearing yesterday about the spending of USAID. Welcome to Washington Watch. Thanks for tuning in and making us part of your day. Well, the Trump administration notched a victory of sorts at the Supreme Court last night when Chief Justice John Roberts temporarily blocked a federal judge’s order That would have required the administration to pay nearly $2 billion in foreign aid to contractors by midnight last night. Roberts has set a deadline of noon on Friday for further action. Congressman Gill will join us in just a moment to discuss that and more. And I’m sure that you have probably seen this exchange by now. This took place last week between President Trump and Maine Governor Janet Mills.
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Are you not going to comply with it? Well, we are the federal law. Well, you better do it. You better do it because you’re not going to get any federal funding at all if you don’t. And by the way, your population, even though it’s somewhat liberal, although I did very well there, your population doesn’t want men playing in women’s sports. So you better comply because otherwise you’re not getting any federal funding. Every state. Good. I’ll see you in court. I look forward to that. That should be a real easy one.
SPEAKER 03 :
I love that clip every time I see it. So Maine seems to be caught up in the latest wave of political insanity. Well, earlier this week, State Representative Laurel Libby was censured by the Democratic-controlled Maine House for a social media post noting that a transgender athlete who won first place in the girls’ pole vault competition competed just last year as a boy.
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The chair understands that the member does not intend to submit an apology to the body. That is correct. The member will be in violation of House Rule 401, part 11. The member will not be able to cast a vote or speak on the floor until the member has come back into compliance with House Rule 401, part 11. The member may return to her seat.
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Outrageous. That was Maine House Speaker Ryan Fecteau. As it stands, Representative Libby is barred from speaking on the House floor until she apologizes. But she can speak here and she will later on this edition of Washington Watch. Also tonight, a new survey from Pew Research suggests the trend of declining affiliation with Christianity in America may have stabilized. We’ll talk with Greg Smith, Senior Associate Director at Pew Research, who led the religious landscape study. And then later, Dr. Andrew Walker from the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary will join me as we analyze the study and… Look at what it means for Christians in America today. And speaking of Christianity, a new Family Research Council report highlights increasing violence and discrimination against Christians in India. Ariel Del Turco, director of the Center for Religious Liberty at FRC, will join us to discuss the findings. All of that and more coming up on this edition of Washington Watch, so stay with us. By the way, if you’ve not seen this week’s episode of God and Government, I encourage you to check it out. How many God-ordained institutions of government are there? Well, watch this week’s edition of God and Government and find out. Text COURSE to 67742. That’s COURSE to 67742. And I’ll send you a link to watch it on the StandFirm app. The Trump administration has said it is eliminating more than 90 percent of the foreign aid contracts of the U.S. Agency for International Development and $60 billion in overall foreign aid. When you look at where the money has been going and how it’s been spent, well, I think you know why they’re cutting it. Here with more is Texas Congressman Brandon Gill. He serves on the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee, the House Budget Committee, and the Judiciary Committee. He represents the 26th Congressional District of Texas. Congressman Gill, welcome to Washington Watch. Thanks for joining us.
SPEAKER 05 :
Tony, thanks for having me.
SPEAKER 03 :
All right. So you really dug into this yesterday at the committee hearing. The left’s all worked up about the president cutting Doge coming in and looking at this wasteful and ineffective spending. This has been an ideological slush fund for the left, has it not?
SPEAKER 05 :
Well, that’s exactly what it is. You know, for decades, the United States Congress has funded areas of the administrative state that have had little to no accountability for what they’re doing with the money we’ve been giving them. And what we found out from the past month of Doge and the executive and the investigations that we’ve been launching in the subcommittee of Doge in Congress is that so much of this money is funding left-wing pet projects in other parts of the globe. And in particular, we’re it’s become a form of cultural imperialism. It is going to more traditional cultures than the United States and funding left-wing projects like transgender surgeries in Guatemala or DEI projects in Eastern Europe or all kinds of other ideologically based programs all over the globe. And that’s what we’re trying to stop. And that’s what our investigation earlier this week was about.
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Tyler O’Neill with The Daily Signal and testimony this week on The Hill about USID spending pointed to where money was going to organizations like George Soros. It was almost like USAID and federal funds were used as a donor match program. So the leftists could double their impact by teaming up with the U.S. government aided by U.S. tax dollars.
SPEAKER 05 :
And that’s exactly right. And you ask yourself, how has the left been so effective at pushing ideologies that are so contrary to common sense? Men should be in women’s sports or men can get pregnant. No normal person believes this, but the reason they’ve had so much power is because their whole institutional movement is subsidized by taxpayers. We see that both abroad and in the United States. We spend over $500 million every single year funding NPR and PBS, organizations that routinely attack Republicans and conservatives and Christians and run cover for Democrats. We’ve been funding a vast and convoluted network of NGOs that push left wing ideological causes. You know, that is what has been driving the leftist movement in the United States for a very long time. And those are the people, as you’ve noticed, who have been screaming the loudest as we’ve been exposing this waste and abuse. And those are the people who have no business getting a single dollar from taxpayers.
SPEAKER 03 :
Now, the history of USAID goes back to the 1960s as kind of being the humanitarian outreach arm of the United States government to facilitate our foreign policy objectives and priorities. Clearly, as even you laid out yesterday and earlier this week in the committee, on how this money is being spent. I mean, we have condoms being spent to the Taliban, as you pointed out, promoting LGBTQ pretty much around the globe. But in the midst of this, there are some good programs that are going to poor countries, helping with health-related issues, and it is building goodwill. Now, I think we spent way, way too much, but there are some, as I mentioned, there are some legitimate programs. Where will they find a home in this administration?
SPEAKER 05 :
Well, many of these programs that are legitimate, to your point, are going to be housed within the State Department, so that they can continue doing legitimate work that they have been doing. The purpose of foreign aid should be to advance America’s interests abroad. To your point, we have a long history of being generous to other nations, but it should all be done in the context of America’s interests, our cultural interests, our political interests, not as a way of imperializing traditional cultures with secular left-wing values. And that’s the kind of perversion of this program that we’re trying to stop. This is what America First means. It means advancing America’s interests abroad. promoting transgenderism in Latin America certainly doesn’t do that. That doesn’t buy us any goodwill on the world stage. It alienates the United States. And I believe that the American people are tired of seeing their tax dollars actively working against their interests, against America’s interests, and promoting values that they find repugnant and are antithetical to their moral convictions and their faith. And that’s what we’re trying to root out here. But, to your point, there are legitimate foreign aid programs that are going to continue. And the president’s been very clear that that is not what DOGE is stopping. DOGE is not cutting off lifesaving aid, food assistance, for instance, in deeply poverty-stricken nations, where there is a life-or-death situation. What we’re stopping is waste, fraud and abuse. And in these programs, that is very widespread.
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No more transgender operas. I mean, in my time at the U.S. Commission on International Religious Freedom and meeting with leaders in foreign countries, one of the complaints they had was the policies being pushed from our State Department that were, as you pointed out, not just contrary to American values, but you have— countries in the African continent very religious in their orientation. And this stuff was offensive to them. But there was a bigger plan here. It was to push it through the State Department onto these other countries, back through the United Nations to try to influence even our own policy. So it’s way past time to address this. And it sounds as if it’s going to be rooted out. It’s not going to go forward.
SPEAKER 05 :
Well, that’s right. I mean, think of the fiscal situation our country is in right now. We’re $37 trillion in debt. We’re running $2 trillion annual deficits. Our country is bankrupt right now. And in an environment like this, we should not be subsidizing political opposition in the United States, whether that is at home or abroad. You know, I am sick and tired of my tax dollars, and I know my constituents in Texas 26 agree with me on this. I am tired of my tax dollars funding programs that I find repulsive. We are broke, and we’ve got to get back to fiscal sanity. This is a part of that.
SPEAKER 03 :
It absolutely is. When we’re having to dig deep just to get a dozen eggs, we don’t want our tax dollars being wasted. In fact, we want our tax dollars cut. And I know that’s one of the major projects of the Republicans now, is to make sure our taxes don’t go up. Congressman Gill, we have two minutes left. This is actually your first time on the program, I believe, since you’ve been elected to Congress. I’d like to ask our new members, so people get to know a motivated you to run for Congress?
SPEAKER 05 :
Well, you know, I’ve been involved in politics for quite a while now, and I never expected myself to jump into the political fray in this respect. But when the opportunity opened up and our former congressman announced he was retiring, I knew it was time to make sure that we had good, solid conservative representation in Congress. I think that there is a silent majority that is not so silent anymore, who has been begging for Washington to listen to them, to stand up for conservatism, to stand up for their Christian principles in Washington. And they’re begging for it. And that’s what I hope to do here in D.C. And a big part of that is defunding some of these agencies. Of course, it’s fighting back and trying to defund Planned Parenthood. It’s pushing for pro-life policies that our country needs desperately. And it’s fighting to bring our country back to its Christian roots. So those are my goals here in Washington. We’ve got a long ways to go. Luckily, we have a president in the White House who is much more amenable to our worldview and actually supports the American people. So my biggest goal here is to provide legislative support for him. But we’ve got a lot more work to do here.
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A lot of work to be done, but a lot of hope that it’ll get done. A lot of opportunity ahead of us. Congressman Gill, again, thanks for joining us and look forward to having you on again real soon.
SPEAKER 05 :
Tony, thanks for having me.
SPEAKER 03 :
All right, Congressman Brandon Gill of Texas, one of the new members of Congress, and there are a lot of them, and they’re here to do the right thing. That’s one of the reasons I’m encouraged. We see more and more men and women of faith that are coming here to our nation’s capital to make a difference. All right, don’t go anywhere. When we come back, a Maine state legislator has been silenced by her colleagues for speaking the truth. Well, she speaks here next.
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During these challenging times for our nation, Family Research Council continues to serve as a watchman on the wall for faith, family, and freedom. And together, thanks to your support, we’re making an eternal impact. 2024 was a year of shining the light for biblical truth in Washington, D.C. Last fall, over 1,000 spiritually active, governance-engaged conservatives gathered for the Pray, Vote, Stand Summit to pray for our nation and ensure that the issues impacting sage cons were understood and advanced. Washington Watch with Tony Perkins marked a major milestone this year, its 900th episode, and added the Washington Watch News Desk, a new production that presents the top news each day from a biblical worldview. The Washington Stand published 2,000 articles of news, commentary, and podcasts in 2024, garnering over 5 million views. FRC’s outlet for news and commentary continues to pursue the truth on the issues that matter most to you and your family. And with the launch of the Stand Firm app, you can listen to, watch, and read our content in one simple place. Pray for current issues, stay rooted in the scriptures, and engage the political sphere with the community of believers on our new platform. In 2024, FRC shaped public policy and culture, organizing the National Gathering for Prayer and Repentance where members of Congress and Christian leaders came together to seek God’s intervention in America. In May, FRC called upon believers to pray for and stand with Israel by dedicating a portion of their worship services to pray for Israel’s peace, prosperity, and protection. With Pray, Vote, Stand Decision 2024, FRC and Real Life Network led a powerful evening of election night coverage to analyze the election results and pray that our nation would turn back to God. We also filmed a transformative educational course, God and Government. Available now on the Stand Firm app, this series will explore the biblical and historical foundations of our government, empowering you to stand confidently in your role as a citizen of heaven and earth. Family Research Council thanks you for partnering with us in standing for faith, family, and freedom.
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Welcome back to Washington Watch. Good to have you with us. All right. The Democrat dominated state of Maine. It’s a beautiful state, by the way. I’ve been there many times. Well, they continue to dig their heels in on their stance on men and women’s sports. I played the clip at the top of the program of the governor, Mills, interacting with President Trump. But this fight has evolved even more. Now, the state is refusing to adhere to federal policy, and so the Trump administration is beginning to cut funds to their institutions. But it’s gone beyond that. They’re now silencing their own elected officials who challenge this insanity. On Tuesday night, the main House of Representatives censured one of its own members, Republican Laura Libby, for a social media post, a social media post regarding a transgender athlete, a man who participated in a track and field event, a girls’ track and field event, and won. Just a year ago, he was participating as a male. So… After being censured, she can no longer speak or vote on the House floor until she apologizes, apologizes for telling the truth. Well, she’s not silenced here, so she joins us now. Libby, State Representative Laurel Libby, and we welcome you to Washington Watch. Thanks so much for joining us.
SPEAKER 14 :
Thank you so much for having me. It’s my pleasure.
SPEAKER 03 :
So let me just let you set the stage here. The social media posts that you put on, I believe, a Facebook page over the weekend about a transgender athlete track and field, a man, a guy who won a pole vaulting contest in a women’s track and field event. You put that out there and as a result, you were silenced.
SPEAKER 14 :
Yeah, absolutely. I certainly had no idea that the post would go viral. But the truth has a way of getting out. And so Monday night, last Monday night, a week and a half ago, this young man won the Maine State Championship for the pole vault in the girls category. And I posted side by side pictures of him on the podium. in fifth place as a boy last year, and then in the first place spot this year in the girls category. And I think folks seeing that side-by-side visual kind of was shocking to people. And that is what I have been silenced over is speaking up for those girls who were standing there next to him in second place, displaced from the top of the podium by a biological male.
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I’m struggling with this as a former state legislator, understanding, number one, when you’re in the well of the House, as long as you’re not attacking someone else, you have the freedom of speech. You can’t you can’t be censored in that standpoint. But this is this is in your private time, your private capacity as a as an individual putting something on a social media platform. They have the right to silence you for that.
SPEAKER 14 :
Well, I don’t believe that they do have the right. That’s still in question. But it is unprecedented. Never in Maine’s history has a sitting legislator been censured in this way for anything outside of the statehouse.
SPEAKER 03 :
So what does this mean? What does this mean? You can’t speak. You can’t vote. I mean, how how how do you represent the people you were elected to represent?
SPEAKER 14 :
I can’t. This has silenced me. This has silenced Maine girls. And this has silenced my constituents, all 9,000 of them that elected me to represent them. I no longer can be their voice in the statehouse, and I cannot vote for them. And I do not believe that that is constitutional.
SPEAKER 03 :
So what are the next steps for you? I can tell you’re a fighter. I don’t know. I’m not sure the motivation here, if your background is in women’s sports, you’re competitive, but I can see you’re a fighter, and you’re not going to let this go.
SPEAKER 14 :
Yeah, I am a longtime runner and I’m not gonna let this go because I and others are standing for what’s right and the truth. And we’re standing in the gap for girls, main girls who are having their rights stripped away. And so next steps are still up for debate. We’re exploring options, but I do believe that the speaker is not within constitutional grounds to strip me of the ability to speak for my constituents.
SPEAKER 03 :
Now, how many Republicans are in the statehouse?
SPEAKER 14 :
We have 73 Republicans, 76 Democrats and two independents. But let me tell you this. Last November, when we had our most recent election, the Democrats won the majority by 60 votes across the entire state. That’s how slim their majority is.
SPEAKER 03 :
So are the Republicans standing with you?
SPEAKER 14 :
Yeah, absolutely. The Republican caucus stands very firmly and strongly in support of Maine girls and their rights and their right to have a fair and level playing field.
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, if you look at the polls, I’m not a big one on polls, but polls do kind of give you a snapshot of where people stand. And the public’s pretty fickle. But this issue is like an 80-20 issue. It was a big issue in the presidential election this fall. If they won by a handful of votes in this last election, their future is in jeopardy, I would imagine.
SPEAKER 14 :
Well that’s certainly one of my hopes. Next year is of course another election year. The entire legislature will be up for a vote and I think it’s time to change the majority.
SPEAKER 03 :
What can our viewers and listeners across the country do to be helpful to you? Because I want to say, first off, thanks for standing up and fighting. I wish many of the men in Maine had half the courage that you had, because if that were the case, women wouldn’t have to be competing against men in sports. We need courage, and I appreciate you having that courage to stand up. What can we do to help?
SPEAKER 14 :
Yeah, absolutely. Well, you can follow me and I’ll be putting more information up about what folks can do to help on Facebook and on X as well. So stay tuned for next steps and ways that you can help.
SPEAKER 03 :
One final question for you, Libby. How how representative Libby, how can our folks pray for you?
SPEAKER 14 :
You may hear that my voice is a little scratchy. I’ve been feeling a little under the weather. So that’s certainly one this winter.
SPEAKER 03 :
All right. We’ll be praying for that and praying for your staying power on this and that you prevail. Thanks so much for joining us today. And again, thanks for taking a stand.
SPEAKER 14 :
Thank you.
SPEAKER 03 :
State Representative Laurel Libby in Maine. So folks, you know, we’re seeing this across the country. We see men and women who are taking a stand. A lot of women taking a stand, which I appreciate. I wish more men were out there taking a stand. But as we see these women taking a stand in these elected roles, we need to support them, pray for them, encourage them. Maybe you need to step forward and run for a school board, run for state legislature, run for city council. Look, this is a moment that won’t be repeated in the near future, maybe not in our lifetime. We need to seize this moment. All right, don’t go away. More Washington Watch straight ahead.
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Oh, beautiful for spacious skies.
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At the 2020 Gathering for Prayer and Repentance, hundreds gathered with Christian and government leaders at the Museum of the Bible in Washington, D.C., to pray for the nation and ask God to forgive us of our sins.
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We gather here not to appeal to 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue. We are appealing to heaven. Today we make our appeal not in the authority of a political party or in the name of a denomination. We come in the name and the authority of Jesus Christ. Amen. who has been given all authority in heaven and on earth, and we have been commissioned to operate in that authority.
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Father, we pray in Jesus’ name for our complacency, our greed, our pride, our gluttony, pride, our gluttony, our sloth, and tolerance of sin.
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Lord, your word is the food that can make America healthy again. May your word be exalted and believed in our nation again.
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Lord, we ask that you allow us to become that shining city on the hill once more for your love, your grace, and your mercy.
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We thank you for your love and your grace and your mercy, for the opportunity that you have provided us to heal our land. We ask you to do it, Lord. We ask you for the wisdom, discernment, and stamina to do the thing that you have called each one of us, all of us here, to do. May we be found faithful. We trust it, pray it, believe it all. In Jesus’ name, amen.
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Welcome back to this Thursday edition of Washington Watch. Good to have you with us. If you’ve not yet downloaded the Stand Firm app, I encourage you to do so. Go to the App Store and download the Stand Firm app or text APP to 67742, and I’ll send you a link. Today’s passage is from Jeremiah chapter 32. The word of the Lord came to me. Behold, Hanamel, the son of Shalom, your uncle, will come to you and say, buy my field at Anathoth, for the right of redemption is yours. Then in verse 10, Jeremiah says, I signed the deed, sealed it, got witnesses, and weighed the money out on the scales. At this moment, Jeremiah is imprisoned for proclaiming truth. The nation is about to fall, the temple will be destroyed, and the people carried into 70 years of captivity, just as Jeremiah foretold. Now God instructs him to redeem family property, soon to be worthless. Why not focus on the immediate crisis? Because God was telling Jeremiah and the people they still had a future. Just as God’s word of judgment was coming to pass, so would his promise of restoration. I will bring you back to this land God declared, so prepare. As followers of Christ, we too have a future. Let’s invest in it and never lose sight of God’s promises. For more on our journey through the Bible, text BIBLE to 67742. That’s BIBLE to 67742. Well, the nation of India, largest so-called democracy in the world, is a place of great hostility and discrimination toward Christians. And it is growing ever more severely. In fact, during my time at the U.S. Commission on International Religious Freedom, we recommended that India be identified as a country of particular concern. That is yet to happen. That would give tools to the federal government to sanction India for their hostility or indifference toward religious freedom and, in particular, what the evidence suggests is is that they’re turning a blind eye to the attack and to the abuse and discrimination toward Christians and other religious minorities. FRC has released a new issue brief examining this violence and discriminations that Christians in India are facing. And here to share more is FRC’s Arielle de Turco, who is our director for the Center for Religious Liberty. Arielle, welcome back to Washington Watch. Thanks for joining us.
SPEAKER 01 :
Thank you so much for having me, Tony.
SPEAKER 03 :
All right, so let’s talk about how frequent and common these attacks of violence have become in India toward Christians.
SPEAKER 01 :
You know, we don’t hear about it that often, but attacks against Christians are shockingly frequent. Just last week, we saw there was a church where 200 people, a mob of 200 people, came, interrupted a worship service, beat people with iron rods simply because they were attending a Christian worship service in their community. And when the police showed up, they didn’t show up to protect the Christians necessarily. They showed up, they took the pastor in for questioning, and they asked him if he was responsible for forced conversions of all things. There was no basis for this. They were believing the mob over the Christian citizens who were attacked. simply for worshiping their God. So we’re looking at not only a situation where there’s a lot of violence and Christians face uncertainty and attacks, but the police are at worst complicit and at best completely turning a blind eye to Christian suffering.
SPEAKER 03 :
That’s where we see, we see that happening a lot in some countries like Nigeria and others where it’s not necessarily at the hands of government that we see this systematic persecution of religious minorities, Christians in particular, but they’re just turning away, allowing The mobs, as you pointed out, to to carry this out with impunity. Now, there’s something coming up. There’s there’s reports coming up March the 1st that there is going to be an all out attack. Hindu extremists in the nation have called for a day of mob violence, targeting Christians, accusing them of being cow slaughterers. Now, this is yet another painful reminder that through, though India claims to be the world’s largest democracy, many of its policies reinforce the perception that the nation has come to this Hindu nationalism that is worsening into extremism. Talk a little bit about this and how we as Christians here in the United States can be responding to this threat for March the 1st.
SPEAKER 01 :
Yeah, this is very scary. So a few viral videos went around social media in India where Hindu leaders were calling on their followers to physically attack Christians on this specific day. When we hear the term cow slaughters, we think that’s a very weird insult, but they hold cows as sacred in Hinduism. And so they sometimes falsely accuse Christians of eating beef in India and And so they’re trying to foment this violence on this one concentrated time. And Christians in India are very frightened. So they would really appreciate our prayers. We’ve heard from Indians who have reached out asking for prayers, asking for awareness on this issue. And this is really a symptom of some of the Hindu nationalism that is growing rampant in India. Over the last several years, India went from a country that was number 32 on the most dangerous list of places to be a Christian, according to Open Doors. Now they’re number 11. So we’ve seen a serious spike. in safety for Christians in India over the last decade or so.
SPEAKER 03 :
So let me ask you, Ariel, Prime Minister Modi, is he helping or is he hurting? Where does he stand on this?
SPEAKER 01 :
He has largely been entirely silent on violence against Christians, and partially it’s because some of his supporters, not all, but there’s a section of his supporters that are fomenting this type of violence. So it’s not politically advantageous for him, who he’s a part of a Hindu nationalist movement, to really be speaking out against this. But we live in unprecedented times with President Trump really having a bit of an unpredictable foreign policy. But he has a good relationship with Modi. And I think he has a chance here to call India out, to call up. Prime Minister Modi and ask him to protect Christians. And we’re coming up against March 1st. This would be a good time to do that.
SPEAKER 03 :
All right. Arielle, thanks so much for joining us. Great work. And folks, you can look at this report at TonyPerkins.com. You can follow the links over. Don’t go away. We’re back after this.
SPEAKER 07 :
What is God’s role in government? What does the separation of church and state really mean? And how does morality shape a nation? President John Adams said our Constitution was made only for moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other. Join Family Research Council for God and Government, a powerful 13-part series that equips you with biblical truth to engage in today’s most pressing debates. From the Ten Commandments in classrooms to the immigration crisis of America, we’ll uncover the foundations of our nation’s history and why it’s relevant for today. Defend God’s plan for government because faith and freedom were never meant to be separate. New episodes available each Monday. To view the series on the Stand Firm app, text COURSE to 67742.
SPEAKER 08 :
The world is hurting, streets are filled with crime, families are broken, sin is celebrated, and God is mocked. Everywhere we look, the wages of our sin are on full display. As Christians, we know that surrender to God’s will is the solution to our biggest problems, but not everyone agrees. Even in church, we hear people say the most important thing is to be tolerant, that we shouldn’t impose a morality on other people, and that loving our neighbor means celebrating what they do. But you can’t do that. It’s not that you don’t love your neighbor. You do. But you care about God’s opinion more than your neighbor’s opinion, and this makes you different. In fact, sometimes it makes you feel alone, like you’re the only one. But there is good news. You are not alone, not even close. Research has found that there are 59 million American adults who are a lot like you. There are millions of people around the country who are born again, deeply committed to practicing their faith, and believe the Bible is the reliable Word of God. But that’s not all. They’re also engaged in our government. They’re voters. They’re more likely to be involved in their community, and they’re making a difference in elections. The problem is that a lot of them feel alone, too. We want to change that. FRC wants to connect these 59 million Americans to speak the truth together, no matter the cost. If you want to learn more about this group and what it means to be a spiritually active, governance-engaged conservative, or if you want to find out if you are one of these SageCons yourself, go to frc.org slash SageCon and take the quiz to find out. The world is hurting, and we have the solution. We can’t do it alone, but we can do it if we work together. That’s what we’re working toward every day. Join us. Go to FRC.org slash S-A-G-E-C-O-N, SageCon, to learn more. That’s S-A-G-E-C-O-N, SageCon, to learn more.
SPEAKER 03 :
Welcome back to Washington Watch. Thanks for being with us. The website Tony Perkins dot com. Better yet, get the stand firm app. Go to the app store. Get the stand firm app. All right. A very insightful report study was released yesterday from Pew Research Center. It is their religious landscape study. Now, according to this study, the number of self-identified Christians has been in a steady decline since 2007. But this new report seems to show that that number has stabilized in the past few years. What does that mean? Why is it stabilized? What does the future look like? Well, we’re going to begin our discussion with the lead researcher in this, Greg Smith. He’s the senior associate director at Pew Research and led the research on this study. Greg, welcome to Washington Watch. Thanks for joining us.
SPEAKER 06 :
Thank you for having me. Good to be with you.
SPEAKER 03 :
So give our listeners and viewers kind of just an oversight of this study. This is not the first time. This is the third. It’s like 393 pages, so it’s quite extensive. Give us the history and the reason for it.
SPEAKER 06 :
Yeah, this is the third time, as you mentioned, that we’ve done the study. We did it the first time in 2007. We did it again in 2014. And now we’ve repeated it for the third time. This is a huge survey. We sampled more than 36,000 Americans from all across the United States. We’ve got data on all 50 states and the District of Columbia. And the purpose of the study is to paint a comprehensive religious portrait of the United States. The large sample makes it possible to drill down and look at the characteristics of even some smaller groups. We include dozens, if not 100 or more, questions about people’s religious beliefs and practices. And we really hope it can be a comprehensive resource of data about religion in the United States. You know, the U.S. Census Bureau does not collect information about religion, and we hope this can help build that gap.
SPEAKER 03 :
All right, so I have 100 questions for you after reading through this. I love data. I think it’s very insightful. But before I get into my questions, well, this is my question, but I want to ask you this. What was most surprising to you in this research that you found this time?
SPEAKER 06 :
Definitely the thing that’s most striking to me is the recent stabilization in religion in the United States. You know, for a long time, for many, many years, really decades, we’ve been tracking gradual declines in American religion, including declines in the share of people who identify as Christians. That goes back a long time. But what really struck us about this new survey, along with other data that we’ve conducted, is that if you just zero in on the last four or five years, We’ve really seen a period of stabilization. Those declines have stalled. The share of US adults who are Christians, after declining for many, many years, has stabilized. Meanwhile, the share of Americans who say they have no religion, the share who describe themselves as atheist or agnostic or just nothing in particular with respect to religion, after growing for many years, that group has plateaued as a share of the American population. So that’s what was most striking to us.
SPEAKER 03 :
So what do you believe is behind this leveling off of the decline?
SPEAKER 06 :
Well, there’s a couple of things we can point to. First of all, to understand the long-term trends, you have to understand that a big part of what’s happened in American religion is generational replacement. You have older cohorts, older groups of people who, by and large, are quite religious. And as they have passed away, they have been replaced by new generations of young adults who are simply far less religious than their parents and grandparents before them. Additionally, if we look back over the long term, Each age group, older people and younger people and everyone in between, has grown less religious over time. But over the short term, over the last four or five years, every age group has shown signs of stability. And furthermore, the data show that the youngest Americans those who are, say, between the ages of 18 and 24 today, they’re not really much less religious than the second youngest group of Americans. So the youngest Americans are sort of tugging down on the nation’s overall religiousness, but not as much as would be the case if they were substantially less religious than the generation that immediately preceded them.
SPEAKER 03 :
Could this suggest that there’s a rediscovery of religion or a revival of sorts?
SPEAKER 06 :
I’m not sure if we can say there’s a revival of sorts. I think what we see, I would describe it more as stability rather than a revival. One question this raises, as well as this recent stability, is that going to prove to be a lasting feature of the American religious landscape? And we can’t tell the future. It’s too hard to know. But there are a few things we do know. We know, as I mentioned, that the oldest Americans are much more religious than the youngest Americans. We also know that older people will decline as a share of the population as they pass away. And the people coming behind them are much less religious. So if this recent stability is to prove to be a lasting change, I’m sorry, is to prove to be a lasting feature in American religion, something will have to change. Either today’s youngest adults are going to have to become a lot more religious as they get older, or there are going to have to be new generations of young adults that come onto the scene who are more religious than today’s young adults. One of those things is going to have to happen for this stability to be lasting.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yes. I mean, when you look at the long-term trends. Greg, one thing I saw here that suggested that’s a possibility is in your gender gap, the gender pattern, where there’s actually a decline in the gender gap between men and women, where historically women expressing more religiosity than men. But I believe in the youngest adults, that gap is not that wide.
SPEAKER 06 :
That’s exactly right. Historically, by a lot of measures, we’ve seen that women in the United States tend to be more religious on average than men. They’re more likely to attend religious services, more likely to identify with a religion, more likely to pray regularly. But that That gender gap, well, it’s still there. Women are still more religious than men on average. It definitely shows signs of narrowing over time, and it’s much smaller among the youngest adults than among the oldest adults. For example, among young people in the United States, women are only a tad more likely than men to say they pray regularly, whereas among the oldest people in the United States, women are like 20 points more likely than men to say they pray every day. So the gender gap in American religion does show signs of shrinking.
SPEAKER 03 :
I know this is not part of your study here, but in our research on family formation and religious expression, that when the father or the male takes the lead, it has a greater influence on the entire family. So I think if you see that gap narrowing, suggesting that men are stepping into that role, it could have that type of change influence that you were discussing that would be needed to keep this plateau and stopping the further decline. Yeah.
SPEAKER 06 :
Well, the data show very clearly that someone’s religious upbringing is very closely connected to what you might think of as religious outcomes. And what I mean by that is that the data show people who are raised in highly religious homes are way more likely than people who aren’t to grow up to be religious themselves as adults. Now, there’s no guarantee that someone raised in a religious home will grow up to continue to be religious themselves,
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, speaking of that, Greg, one final question for you. Speaking of homes, let’s talk about fertility rates and religious affiliation, because that’s covered in this report. And I thought that was quite interesting.
SPEAKER 06 :
It is. A lot of times when we think about American religion, we think about beliefs and practices and how those things might change among individuals over time. But it’s also important to point out that demographics is a big factor in American religion. What’s the age structure of a given religious group? How many children do people from different religious backgrounds have? What about immigration? What effect does that have on the religious makeup of a place? All these things are super important when when we think about trends in American religion and the future of American religion.
SPEAKER 03 :
In looking at the fertility rate, the highest fertility rate among those identified in this study are evangelicals with a 2.3, just above the sustainability level, where you see a lot of the others declining. So demographics do matter when you talk about the future. And if the home and what people experience in the home is a predictor of what they do when they grow up, if you’ve got bigger homes where people are being exposed to Christianity and to the Bible, that does give us some hope for the future.
SPEAKER 06 :
It’s certainly true, yes. The people’s religious upbringing does have an impact on their religiousness as adults. I would say it’s important to keep in mind as well, though, that the age distribution of a population matters just as much as the fertility rates. So fertility rates for Christians might be somewhat higher, but Christians are also older on average than people who say they have no religion. And so those are the folks who are more likely today to be in their childbearing years. So it’s a very complicated picture. All these things come into play.
SPEAKER 03 :
But it’s well done. And good job, Greg. I appreciate having this information. It’s very insightful. And I appreciate you joining us today to kind of break it down.
SPEAKER 06 :
That’s very kind of you. It’s great to be with you.
SPEAKER 03 :
All right. Have a great day. There’s some encouraging things here as we look at this. It’s kind of like what we’re seeing in terms of in Washington. We’re seeing good policy come forth. It’s a start, but it’s not the finish. This shows us there’s hope, but there’s some work to be done. And so joining me now to talk more about this and how we should take this information and run with it, Dr. Andrew Walker. He is the associate dean at the School of Theology and is an associate professor of Christian ethics and public theology at Southern Baptist Theological Seminary. Dr. Walker, welcome back to Washington Watch. Thanks for joining me.
SPEAKER 10 :
Tony, thank you for having me on.
SPEAKER 03 :
So let me get your overall takeaway from this research data.
SPEAKER 10 :
Sure, I would agree with your previous guest that this is an encouraging report, if only because the trend lines over the last, it feels, past couple decades has been kind of a precipitous decline in religious participation. And so to see that trend line change a little bit and reverse perhaps is, I think, a really encouraging sign of what could be in the future. What’s important now is that we take this maybe small momentum that we have and kind of build off of that.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, I mean, it I’d like to dig down deeper to see what has actually caused this kind of this stabilizing. I think it’s external factors. I think it’s the uncertainty in the world. I think it’s the craziness. And people are saying, wait a minute, there’s got to be more. This doesn’t make sense. And we’ve almost tried everything as a society, and it’s not worked. And so I think maybe there’s a rediscovery of the ancient paths.
SPEAKER 10 :
Sure. I think that if we’re looking at this biblically, we’re made in God’s image, but we’re not just material beings. We are deeply religious beings. We’re homo religiosus, which means there’s something intrinsic to our nature that is calling out for the divine. And secularism tries to suppress those realities and to tell us that we’re just material beings. But we observe time and time again that material explanations for the world don’t satisfy human beings. And one takeaway I have from this report is the fact that secularism just cannot answer the deepest questions plaguing human existence, that we’re going to have to go outside of ourselves for those things. And that’s where religion comes in.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, I think you see that where there’s a clear divide as well. It was interesting in the fact that political liberals, those who identify as politically liberal, the number of those identifying as Christians as well has declined significantly from 62 percent to 37 percent. So I think But liberalism—I shouldn’t say liberalism—leftism, the leftist ideology that is predominant in Democratic politics today, has made it incompatible with any type of Christian worldview. And so I think they’ve fled. And I think that might be a part of why we see some growth among Republicans.
SPEAKER 10 :
Yes. And I think what we have to understand is that behind every political worldview, there are massive metaphysical and philosophical assumptions built into it. And when we’ve seen kind of the progressive left go down a very kind of materialist understanding of the world, the idea that there is no such thing as a fixed human nature, it’s causing individuals to kind of have a whiplash. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right.
SPEAKER 03 :
I think it’s very important to make the distinction. Conservative and Christian are not the same, but there is—if you take a Venn diagram, as the vice president would like to use the past vice president, yes, there’s a lot of overlap. I want to talk issues here. Let’s talk public policy issues—abortion, homosexuality, transgenderism, et cetera. It appears, on the longevity of this study— that evangelicals changed the least in their views on these issues. 82% of evangelicals, though, also said that the Bible was very important to them. So is there a correlation? Those who have a high view of Scripture, less likely, even though there’s external pressure, to change their view on these core issues.
SPEAKER 10 :
Well, we would certainly hope. I mean, the idea here is that if you have been steeped in a biblical worldview, that is a worldview grounded in objective truth, grounded in a transcendent understanding of the universe, meaning that truth does not change over time. It’s not in constant flux. And so you would hope if there’s any population in the United States that would have a pretty stable, unchanging worldview, you would hope that it is evangelicals. And there are a lot of reasons for optimism in that report demonstrating, as you mentioned, there’s less change in our worldview. But there are also some disappointing metrics in that report as well, indicating that we still have a lot of work to do to really inculcate a biblical worldview in our young people.
SPEAKER 03 :
Dr. Walker, just have about a minute left. And I know this is it’s it’s 393 pages, a lot to digest. But just based on what you’ve seen so far in digesting this report, what would be the action steps that you would lay out there that pastors and churches need to be taking?
SPEAKER 10 :
Well, I think that there has been a long trend that pastors have wanted to run away from political issues. And this report demonstrates that it’s actually being biblical in one’s politics does not cause individuals to run away from the faith. In fact, it actually causes individuals to have a more coherent biblical worldview. So I think this is a report that should kind of provide a bolt of encouragement for pastors not to shy away from these contentious issues, because it’s these contentious issues where people are needing the most guidance.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, and if we want to secure the future, we need to act now. And I think it’s a… It’s all the above. We need to evangelize. We need to disciple. We need to help create that biblical worldview if we’re going to sustain a Christian presence and vibrant Christian community in our nation. Dr. Walker, thanks for joining us. Always great to see you. Thank you. And folks, thank you for joining us as well. And until next time, well, just keep standing.
SPEAKER 15 :
Washington Watch with Tony Perkins is brought to you by Family Research Council and is entirely listener supported. Portions of the show discussing candidates are brought to you by Family Research Council Action. For more information on anything you heard today or to find out how you can partner with us in our ongoing efforts to promote faith, family, and freedom, visit TonyPerkins.com.
