Andy Peth (personality of the Rush to Reason show) joins Rachel Mains in the KLTT studio to talk about the theory of evolution. Andy discusses some of the dilemmas in the theory of evolution, such as the complexity of an eye and a feather. His hope is that believers will be empowered to talk with their loved ones, who hold to the evolution theory. Open discussions will help to impact friends and family to see the the validity of God's word and begin to see the Biblical worldview.
"For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse." ~Romans 1:20
Andy is a radio personality for KLZ 560 in Denver, Colorado. Raised in liberal, atheist surroundings, Andy “lost the debate with himself” and accepted Christ, later receiving a Pastoral Ministry degree from Colorado Christian University. Today, Andy helps Conservatives and Christians defend their beliefs in an increasingly hostile world.
In this episode of the Corner Cafe, Rachel Maynes is joined by her long-time friend Aaron Budgen, who brings impactful insights on the true essence of the Gospel. With a unique background that combines complex problem-solving and deep theological understanding, Aaron offers a fresh perspective on spiritual life and salvation. Through rich dialogue, Rachel and Aaron explore how simplicity in faith can often be overshadowed by the complex teachings encountered in adulthood. Aaron describes the Gospel in two parts: the bad news and the good news, emphasizing the spiritual death and subsequent restoration through Jesus Christ. By sharing personal stories and theological insights, he challenges the traditional Christian approach of striving to rid one's life of sin by highlighting the inheritance through Christ. This touching conversation aims to encourage listeners to embrace a deeper understanding of their faith journey. Rachel also delves into Aaron’s diverse credentials and how they have shaped his ability to teach and communicate the scriptures. Having grown up in Orthodox Judaism and studying to become a rabbi, Aaron’s exploration of Messianic prophecies eventually led him to embrace Jesus as Messiah. This transformative path not only shifted his career but profoundly impacted his spiritual ministry, as he now combines these elements to offer a proper alignment between the Gospel, modern faith, and true forgiveness.
And welcome to Corner Cafe. I am Rachel Maynes, and while I am so honored to have my friend Aaron Budgen on Corner Cafe, I've been trying to get you on the show for a while, Aaron. You finally said yes.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yes, after many years, I gave in. I'll be a little slow, but I'll be a little bit more exciting to listen to in just a few minutes.
SPEAKER 01 :
It's funny, because we met probably, what, five years ago?
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah.
SPEAKER 01 :
Yeah, and so I came to a church service. I heard about you from listening to AM670 KLTT before I was operations manager here. And what you have to say and how you... teach the Bible is really life-changing and honestly took me back to when I was a kid and how I understood salvation as a little kid. When I came to know the Lord, I was like, this is too good to be true. The Lord totally forgave me of all my sin, and I just was really excited as a little kid about what He had given me. But then as I became an adult and got exposed to different teachings in different churches, some of that kind of got muddled. So I'm just going to get right to it right here, Aaron. And then we're going to get into all the things that you do. I mean, your credentials and your skill set is just amazing. But what is the gospel? Let's start there.
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, I describe the gospel as two parts. There's the bad news and then there's the good news. Most people are familiar with the good news, but it's kind of hard to appreciate it without starting with the bad news. And so I usually begin by describing the condition of humanity as being not just sinful, but also spiritually dead. And while I've encountered a lot of people who will recognize the idea of being spiritually dead when I speak of it, that's usually about as far as it goes with them. They just recognize it. Oh, yeah, there's some truth to that, but whatever. And yet I emphasize that a lot because it's my belief that Jesus died for our sins so he could restore the spirit of life, the Holy Spirit, that was lost in Adam, and that that is salvation. So while most people will say that salvation is getting your sins forgiven, I'll say that, well, I'll say that salvation is possible because we've had our sins forgiven. And so that separates me from a lot of people, but I'll be very direct about that and that, yes, this is going to make me a little bit different than most folks. But the most important follow-up to that is the idea of forgiveness being complete and why it is necessary for forgiveness to be complete and for the sin issue between us and God to be completely resolved. Because if it isn't resolved, then he can't restore the Holy Spirit without it leaving again. And so that's where I come up with the definition of eternal life, that the life that we have now with the Holy Spirit of God dwelling within us is eternal because there is no sin that will cause that to depart. I think the reason why it's not so well received or not received as well as I would like, you know, I do contribute to the lives of a lot of people. If you go to Living God Ministries website, there's a recent testimonials page and that's the place to go to read and see the effectiveness of the work that I've been able to do. That'll tell you, you can read through it and a person can get a feel, they can get a sense for the effectiveness of the work that I've been able to do. But the significant difference between the work that I've done and what other people are doing is kind of placed there in the topic of forgiveness. People are mainly concerned about the consequences related to that. Well, then how are we going to live if we're not going to be living to try and eliminate all the sin in our lives? What is the Christian life going to be? Because for the most part, that's what the Christian life is for people, is they're trying to just simply get all the sin out of their life. And so I follow it up with an emphasis on the inheritance that we have received in Christ. And that separates me from a lot of others as well, that I'll tend to focus a lot on what we have been given, So that we can live our lives with what we have. And that's something that I have found is really difficult to get people to really move into. Within the grace movement, which I kind of fit in the category of, what happens if a person doesn't really go into the inheritance, they end up defaulting to living by the law anyway, right? And so that also keeps me kind of separated from a lot of other people as well. But I've done well. You know, I've done well. I've been able to contribute to the lives of a lot of people. And I do feel at peace with it.
SPEAKER 01 :
Yeah. Well, for me, it was really just connecting the dots and going back to what I understood simply as a child. And I can see when I understood and was living out that growing up, it sustained me to do things not because I was under law or the do's and the don'ts, but just because I loved God. But then, you know, my journey through Christianity, hearing different messages and kind of getting maybe mixed messages but I didn't understand that you say a lot in your programs the problem is all the other things you believe so it can you know I went through a time of kind of confusion with my faith up till now because of those other things I was believing that I didn't necessarily know were going against the foundation of my faith where it was healthy and progressing and I was getting to know the Lord kind of got sidetracked So another thing you say that I want you to hit on is wandering in the desert. So spiritually speaking, when we're not believing and understanding the pureness of the gospel and grace, then we can kind of believe other things that... In the analogy of wandering in the desert in our faith, we're not really growing. We're just kind of going in circles. That's how I felt in my Christianity in my adulthood as I've now discovered, okay, it's because I've been believing other things that are contradictory.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, it's called Wandering Around in the Wilderness.
SPEAKER 01 :
Oh, okay, Wandering Around in the Wilderness, yes.
SPEAKER 03 :
Sin, confession, repentance. Sin, confession, forgiveness, repentance. Sin, confession, forgiveness, repentance. And that becomes the cycle of the Christian life, yeah.
SPEAKER 01 :
Yeah, yes. So let's talk about your credentials, because, you know, we've been friends for a while, and then I just was like, wow, so I didn't know that you had a Ph.D. in computer science, which is incredible, right? But you also are a Tai Chi master, I believe, and so many other things that you do. I don't know how you have the time to do all that, but you have a lot of different skill sets, and all these skill sets have played a role in your ability to now teach the gospel.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, I don't normally talk too much about myself because I'm more interested in people knowing the Lord than me, but I'll make an exception, I suppose, in this case. Yes, I have a PhD in computer science, everything but the dissertation. I just couldn't finish that up because the ministry took over. I used to teach at the University of Colorado. I did that for eight years, the upper-level courses. I was the gatekeeper for the bachelor's degree program. Nobody got through it without getting through me. And I also did work for the Office of Naval Research and DARPA, where I did advanced scientific work. I'm mainly a scientific programmer, a complex problem solver, where I worked on missile guidance systems and tracking systems and different new ways in order to solve problems, you know, such as issues related to boat harbors and all kinds of stuff like that. And I really enjoy writing software, and I also have a background in electronics. I used to repair circuit boards for Apple computers and spacecraft industries. But before that, I was in a banking cartel. I started out in executive protection, and then they trained me as a negotiator. So I was working as a negotiator for an international banking cartel out of Austria and Liechtenstein for a while. And when they wanted me to become a member, I said, well, I can't do that. I'm not going to dedicate my life to this. And that's when I went back into computer science. But the reason why I was able to get into that was because of my military experience before that. And, yeah, I was uniquely trained by a Shaolin grandmaster, Shaolin grandmaster, Sin Quan Tei. who is the one who has passed on Shaolin Kung Fu from Lei Chang Ming, who was able to flee to Indonesia. And he fled to Indonesia from China because in the 1950s, the Chinese... um, government, uh, to, you know, the, the communist government took power. And so he sent assassins to kill off all the Shaolin grandmasters. And he was the only one who survived. So I, I'm the third generation from there. And I have, I'm mainly focused on Tai Chi and, um, well, I'm going to have to go back into Kung Fu because now I'm old, you know, and I'm going to break down if I don't get a little bit more exercise in my life. So that's kind of going backwards, you know, going backwards a little bit. One more step, which does make me kind of unique, is that the way that I grew up is kind of different from most people. My parents always viewed me as being defective and unlovable. And so my whole life has had that element within it. But the Lord's been able to use that to give me the freedom to be able to speak those things that I really believe are true without the concern of how other people are going to view me or how they're going to see me or what they think of me. It just doesn't have much relevance because I'm kind of used to that anyway. Yeah. But, you know, but I've still found a place.
SPEAKER 01 :
Yeah, I mean, he's using you amazingly. Also, I want to interject that you were studying to be a rabbi before coming to know Jesus as Messiah. So your ability to understand and communicate the scriptures is outstanding. Go through that process of understanding The rabbi journey, then realizing, wow, Jesus is the Messiah.
SPEAKER 03 :
When my military service was coming to an end, I figured, you know, I need to get into something else. This is just not going to work. I need to become a better person. I need to become someone different. I need to be respectable. Yeah. And so I thought, you know, I think I'll do that. I went back to the synagogue because that was what I was familiar with. I grew up in Orthodox Judaism. And so I was familiar with that. And that was just the place to go. And then I thought, no, this isn't good enough. I'm going to have to really... really do it, and I'm gonna have to really become a rabbi, and then people will like me, kind of thing. And it didn't take long before I had to answer the question of, well, if the Messiah showed up, how would I know him? How would I know who he really is? And so I went to the scriptures related to the Messiah, and I found that Jesus was the only one who could possibly qualify for being that person. And especially because of the prophecies that are dated, that time has passed, and there cannot be anyone else in the future. It's just not going to work. And so I kept that kind of private for a while, but eventually I had to confess to the synagogue that I believe that Jesus is the Messiah. And they said, well, we just can't have a rabbi who's a Jew for Jesus. So that was when I got out, you know, I got out of that and they still tried to recruit me after a few years still, you know, because I was a pretty good prospect. I put a lot of time into studying biblical Hebrew. I have formal education in biblical Hebrew and I was doing really well. And I was studying the historical writings of the rabbis, which has enabled me to see, especially the ministry of Jesus, In a way that very few people are able to see, because I know what people were thinking. I know what they believed and the intention that Jesus had and a lot of the things that he did. So I was able to make a lot of contributions in that regard because of that. But yeah, when I left, I had to find a new way of life. And so that was how I ended up doing electronics and working for a banking cartel and traveling around the world and stuff.
SPEAKER 01 :
Wow. You know, I always, when I listen to your podcast, and I do recommend our listeners go to livinggodministries.net and go to the radio archives, I often think you're in an interesting position being a Jew, but a Jew who believes in the Messiah. So you have that where you can be ostracized by your fellow Jews. But then also now you're understanding grace and complete forgiveness in a sense too. Now, do you feel sometimes ostracized by your fellow Christians? Because the Christians, the majority, maybe where we don't understand so much the narrative and the historical history. And sometimes we can be taught and teach maybe the Bible in a way that wasn't intended.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, on the Jewish side, I'm viewed as being worse than a traitor, and I just lie to people for money. That's how I'm viewed in that part of the world. So, of course, I don't have any relationships from the past because of that. Within the Christian world, it's been a challenge. You know, I could tell you a story of somebody who recently came over for dinner who is a top executive in a certain radio network. And he emphasized that I'm just not in the same league as other ministries are. And he evaluated that by my donation base, you know, that I don't have as many donors as so-and-so, and I don't... I don't ask for money properly and that kind of thing. He really communicated to me that I'm just not in the same league as everyone else. And, of course, I didn't say this, but I'll say that my response that I was thinking of was, well, I don't think I'm really even in the same sport either.
SPEAKER 01 :
He's like, I'm not even playing the game.
SPEAKER 03 :
Because I just don't measure success by that. I measure success by how many changed lives are there. That's what I measure. Right. And I'm very pleased with that.
SPEAKER 01 :
Yeah. Yeah, and I've often thought, too, sometimes we can turn, and just as my own personal life as well, I've kind of processed, sometimes we can turn the gospel into a business. And that's a sad reality of being in the United States, too, and we are very entrepreneurially, and it's just like, oh, what can I do to get this out? And then we kind of maybe get off course, and it's all about a business model versus really the true heart of the Lord to freely give the truth.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yes, I have built businesses. I know how businesses run, and I have a few right now that I run. But Living God Ministries was specifically architected in a way that it could not turn into a business.
SPEAKER 01 :
Yeah.
SPEAKER 03 :
And it's been very successful with that.
SPEAKER 01 :
Right, yeah. Yeah, thank you for doing that, and thank you for your heart. I appreciate that. I think that the Lord... has been a sweet Lord to you and that you are close to him and that you and him together are doing this work. And even in his ministry, people looked to him as if he wasn't doing things correctly. And he is the Christ here on earth. So I think likewise, when we are doing what he called us to do, it's just the nature of other people looking at us and not understanding.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER 01 :
So Aaron, talking about the ministry and your unique calling in the message of the gospel, what do you feel like in Christianity, how can we as listeners, and I'm talking about myself here, when I talk to my friends, my family who are Christians, help to clarify the message of the gospel? And if they're maybe struggling with the confusion like I was in about different things that are contradicting the foundation, how would you encourage us to talk to our friends and family about that?
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, you can communicate with others what you know really well. You know, to testify of what we know is what's really meaningful. In order to grow in that a little bit more, I think it's really helpful to ask some other questions after getting a good understanding of the gospel definition and a few things about what it implies. In that regard, I would encourage people to really ask the question, two questions. The first one is, what does God want? And then the second question is, what is he doing? Because when you ask those two questions, you'll start to see that he's actually an active participant in our lives. And when you start to understand what it means for him to be an active participant in our lives, then you can show other people that he's not just this impersonal thing that's controlling everything in the universe and is invoking destiny and providence, but that he's actually participating in our lives. And when people can consider a God who's participating, or in the scriptures it's called living, a living God, then they can start to consider other things a lot easier.
SPEAKER 01 :
Yeah, absolutely. And one thing pulling on your history as understanding Hebrew and the study of going into being a rabbi now knowing Jesus as Messiah is you can pull out the nuances that maybe some of us just wouldn't understand through the language. And you have the one time you told me you had some scrolls as well. Is that correct? You have some scrolls, ancient scrolls?
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, the Shrine of the Book Museum in Jerusalem released to me a copy that was the copy that was found at the Dead Sea Scroll, Isaiah. I have a full copy of that. They sent it to me digitally, and so I've been able to do computer analysis. and digital analysis because of my skills with computer science. And it's allowed me to extrapolate on some areas that have been smudged out or are missing and be able to read letters a little bit better. The guy's handwriting wasn't so good. Well, I shouldn't complain. I guess mine is not really much better than his. But yeah, I've translated half of it so far.
SPEAKER 04 :
Wow.
SPEAKER 03 :
And I would like to produce a journal of my findings at some point, maybe another five or ten years or something. I'll pursue that.
SPEAKER 01 :
And I'm going to stop the interview right now. This is just part one of part two with my interview with Pastor Aaron Budgen with Living God Ministries. And I'm going to toss to a program that he's done on forgiveness. And you can go to Aaron's website to listen to the entire program. He actually has 12 programs in the series of Understanding Forgiveness. And I'm going to take a snippet from Forgiveness 1. So once again, go to his website, livinggodministries.net. Click on the radio archive and then scroll down until you see the title, Understanding Forgiveness. And here is that teaching on forgiveness.
SPEAKER 02 :
Again, if your understanding of forgiveness is not correct, then you will be building your entire faith, your entire relationship with your God, will be built on the sand. And it will fall. It will collapse. At best, you will be paralyzed in your faith. But at worst, you will abandon the faith because you have not established your faith on the fundamental truth that you need to establish it on. And so I would like to address this issue of forgiveness. Now, when it comes to forgiveness, if I was to ask a Christian, do you believe that your sins have been forgiven? Then the normal response that I have received in the past, the normal response is, yes, I do believe that I have been forgiven, that my sins have been forgiven. If I was to ask the question, do you believe that your sins have been forgiven, past, present, and future? then in general people would respond by saying, yes, absolutely, I do believe that all my sins have been forgiven, past, present, and future. If I was to ask the question, do you believe that without the crucifixion, without the Lord Jesus dying on the cross, Your sins would not be forgiven. You would effectively still be in your sins. That without the cross, without the crucifixion, there is no way that you could be forgiven. And people would say, certainly, I really do believe that. But that's not the issue. The issue really is how I ask the question. You see, when I ask those kinds of questions, people will respond and they will definitely tell me the truth. But that's not the real problem. The problem is that I can ask the question differently. I can ask the question in a very different way and people will give me a response. They will give me an answer. That is totally contradictory to what the Scriptures say concerning forgiveness. For example, if I was to ask somebody, do you believe that the sins that you are going to commit this afternoon are going to be held against you? Do you believe that the sins that you committed today are held against you in any way whatsoever? then there are some Christians who would say, yes, I do believe that if I commit a sin this afternoon, or later on today, or tomorrow, that my God will hold those sins against me in some way. People do believe that. If they don't believe that directly, perhaps they may believe it indirectly. Let me give you another example. Do you believe that if you commit a sin, you must ask for forgiveness in order to be forgiven of that sin? And if you do not ask for forgiveness, then your God will still hold that sin against you. If a person says, yes, I believe that I need to ask God for forgiveness, then what they are saying is that they do not have forgiveness. Do not underestimate the seriousness of this statement. If I believe that I have been forgiven, then I also believe that I have not been forgiven because I have to ask for forgiveness, otherwise I won't be forgiven. That's a total contradiction. There is no truth in that understanding whatsoever. There is nothing but deception. I mean, you have to really decide, my friend, you have to really think about this. You have to decide, are you forgiven or are you not forgiven? And this is a very divisive issue, a very divisive issue in the body of Christ. And you will have to take a position. I personally do not believe that the position that we should take as Christians is that we have to continually find ways of obtaining forgiveness. either through our confession, through our repentance, through our apology, through our going to a priest, or through our exercising various religious activity, I do not believe that there is any way whatsoever that a person can obtain forgiveness for the sins that they are about to commit. I don't believe that. I don't see any evidence in the scriptures personally that I believe would suggest that this is the case. Now, I do understand that there are people who do believe that there is evidence in the scriptures. I just read those verses very differently. It's not that I don't know that those scriptures exist. I do know that those scriptures exist. I don't have a problem with the scriptures at all. It's just that my understanding of these verses in the scriptures is different than the understanding that other people have. And I will, of course, take some time to address these scriptures that people refer to because I think it's very important. for people to understand why people do not believe that they have been forgiven. And I do believe it's very important to take down these barriers. Otherwise, a person will not live in the forgiveness that they already have. Now, this subject is so serious that we should consider that for just a moment. And that is that if you do not believe that you have been forgiven... then what are you going to do to get forgiveness? Well, whatever you do, it's going to have to be outside of the forgiveness that He has already given. And so you will immediately be living on the basis of something that is not real. You will no longer be living in reality. You will now begin to live in your own personal, individual fantasy. or in the fantasy of someone else, or in the fantasy of some other congregation, or community, or seminary, or country, or who knows what. The issue is, is that there is a reality, and there is fantasy. And that which is not real, is not real. You must embrace that which is real, that which is true, if you are going to be in the light of the living God. Now again, the issue in this case is not do you believe that you have been forgiven. The issue that you have to be confronted with is not that. It's everything else that you believe on top of it that totally negates that truth that you have been completely forgiven. And I will be addressing this subject throughout this series on the subject of forgiveness.
SPEAKER 01 :
Such a great teaching by Pastor Aaron Budgen with Living God Ministries. Once again, go to his website, livinggodministries.net. Click on the radio archive and then scroll down to the topic on understanding forgiveness. And this was just a snippet from Forgiveness One. And he has 12 teachings in the series. And make sure to tune in to Living God Ministries with Aaron Budgen on AM 670 KLTT, The Truth, Monday through Friday at 930 a.m. and also Monday through Friday at 5 p.m. Tune in next week for part two of my interview with Pastor Aaron Budgen. Thanks for tuning in to The Corner Cafe. I'm going to see you at the cafe next week.
Darla Rae is an award winning filmmaker and CEO of Film It Productions. Her first full-length feature film, “The Goal” also won numerous awards at various International Film Festivals in three countries, and has screened internationally and received worldwide distribution. Rae’s first documentary “Dandy Kids” also won awards and screened before the United States Congress and was distributed by Film It Productions and continues to help the medical community along with children and their families around the world.
Biff Gore now serves as the Worship Pastor for Highline Community Church. The Ambassador of Soul was on the sixth season of the popular television show, The Voice. He currently travels and does various appearances at different venues, concerts, galas and events.
Rachel Mains talks with Darren Rahn about what he has been up to lately. They discuss what true success really means and looks like.
Rahn’s tireless commitment to musical authenticity over the past 18 years has resulted in multiple Grammy nominations and 26 #1 Billboard singles as a solo artist/saxophonist, producer and mix engineer. The multi-talented, Canadian born, Denver based artist’s multi-faceted journey reaches yet another key milestone with the release of Rock The World, a hallmark album that taps perfectly into the Zeitgeist of these anxious times while revealing an ever-evolving artist at the pinnacle of his creative, melodic, spiritual and sonic expressions.
