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This episode of The Good News with Angie Austin features a profound discussion with Debbie Chavez on overcoming life's toughest battles through faith and forgiveness. Debbie eloquently recounts her journey through adversity—childhood abuse, an unfaithful spouse, and the untimely loss of her husband—to illustrate how she found joy and purpose beyond the pain. Angie and Debbie delve into the symptoms of victim mentality and practical, faith-based steps to break free and pivot to a more hopeful existence. Tune in for an inspiring narrative that is both humbling and empowering, reminding us that our stories are not over, and the best is yet to come.
SPEAKER 03 :
Welcome to the good news with Angie Austin now with the good news. Here's Angie.
SPEAKER 06 :
Hello there, friend. Angie Austin here with the good news. And the good news is we're talking to Debbie Chavez. She is the author of Pivot, How to Break Free from Grief, Heartbreak, Past Abuse, and Resentment. I love this topic because this is a make or break topic for your life. If you can do it right, you have a great life. And if you can't, your whole life is hung up on the past abuse and resentment and grief and heartbreak. Hey, Debbie.
SPEAKER 05 :
Hey there, yes. It sounds like you might have experienced some of this in the past, just like me.
SPEAKER 06 :
You know, anybody who listens to the show is like, oh, not your mother again. I used my mom, who's so lovely and so sweet and so kind, but she was abused as a kid. She was abused as a wife. She was abused as an adult by her sister. So she definitely has more of a victim mentality than I do, and I can't. fault her per se, because she had a different, you know, experience than I did. But I'm very much about moving through with the forgiveness and, you know, breaking free from it. And I feel like even to this day in her 80s, she's still caught up in a lot of anger. And there's a lot of really deep wounds that still color her everyday interactions with people.
SPEAKER 05 :
And we all know someone like that. And frankly, I was someone like that for many years.
SPEAKER 06 :
Interesting, Debbie. Okay, so give us an overview of pivot.
SPEAKER 05 :
Well, what happened, honestly, is that I sat down with a friend who I hadn't seen in years. I sat down with her about six months ago. And we started to just go through like what had happened to me in many, many years that had gone by. And I didn't realize that I kept on saying to her, and then I pivoted from that. And then I had to pivot from this. And then I had to pivot from that and move forward with God. And I realized that God had taught me how to pivot, how to pivot from grief, how to pivot from past childhood trauma, how to pivot from a divorce, how to pivot from my child going to prison at the age of 18, which was devastating, as you can imagine, for a mother. I mean, I had to pivot from all of these things because you know what the other choice was, Angie, is to stay a victim and to stay depressed and hopeless. and just caught up in my story that I would tell over and over and over again to anyone who would have a sympathetic ear, which is one of the signs that you have toxic problems with grief and resentment and the victim mentality when you keep on telling your story over and over again to get sympathy. It was like that was my comfort zone. I'll just tell my story. And then everyone would go, oh, that's so sad. And these things were horrible. Just so you know, and so your listeners can resonate with me, I was the victim of pretty awful ritual childhood sexual abuse for about 10 years from the age of about five to 15. I won't go into detail, but it was absolutely horrific by multiple people in a ritualistic kind of way. That was obviously hugely traumatic. And I defined myself as a victim for many decades after that. I went through a divorce after being married to a serial cheater. That was devastating. Like I said, my 18-year-old child went to prison. That broke my heart. When I approached some family members about my childhood abuse, when I finally got the courage to actually bring it out into the light when I was about 40, I was ridiculed and told that I was a devil for even bringing this up. That was heartbreaking. And then I remarried a wonderful man, a man of God, a pastor who died from COVID a couple of years ago. And so, yeah, I know what it is like to have deep trauma, deep grief. And yet I can say right now in all truthfulness, Angie, I am filled with joy and peace and an excitement for this next chapter of life that God has me in because I've chosen to pivot from the pain and from the past and to grab hold of God's hand and move forward with hopeful anticipation.
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And how long were you married to your second husband?
SPEAKER 05 :
We had 16 years.
SPEAKER 06 :
Oh, wonderful.
SPEAKER 05 :
Just the most delightful man. I mean, God used him to just show me what it was like to be cherished by someone, and it was deeply healing. And then, you know, he's a pastor. We have hundreds, maybe thousands of people praying for him to be healed from COVID, and boom, it didn't happen. He was taken. And I'm telling you, the grief was... horrific you know when you really marry someone who you know you are linked together by god it's a god honoring marriage you become one you're like welded together and so for him to die it turned my world upside down briefly and i can tell you angie about four months into the grief process and i did grieve deeply i remember waking up one morning and i thought i think i'm going to slide into clinical depression i think this is what this feels like there's a big black hole here that's waiting to engulf me And it was at that moment that I just felt the Holy Spirit say, okay, you're done with grieving now. I want you to pivot forward. Grab hold of my hand. Your life isn't over. I have new adventures for you. And at first I'm like, what? Pivot forward? I don't think so. But I trusted him. And God is trustworthy. That is my story. He has led me forward as I just took hold of his hand, Angie. He promises to never leave us nor forsake us. In fact, the end of Matthew 28, where he's telling us to go make disciples of all the nations and all of that, right? But then he ends and he says, and surely I am with you always. And I grabbed hold of that. And that's what I hope listeners will grab hold of today. Grab hold of God's hand. He is with you. Yes, you might have suffered trauma. I certainly did. Maybe you've suffered tremendous grief or heartbreak. Maybe your husband cheated on you like my first husband did on me multiple times. And it's like, I don't have to let that define me. I get to boss around my emotions and say, that's not going to define me. I'm not going to let the devil win this battle and keep me oppressed and hopeless. I'm not going to listen to the whispered lies of the enemy anymore. I'm going to meditate on the truth of God's word that he says all things. God works together for good for those who love him. And that he's come to give me life and life in abundance. And all of those verses, I'm going to grab hold of the truth. And then I can move forward with hope and joy. And guess what, Angie? When I pivoted about four months after my husband died, and I said, okay, Lord, I'm going to trust you for this next season. Guess what? Immediately, unexpectedly, and actually unwelcome by me initially, he brought a widowed pastor into my life. And I felt the Holy Spirit saying, this is the next man I have for you. And I'm like, I don't think so. I just lost my husband. What are you saying? And yet I trusted God. And guess what? We're married now. And he is a wonderful man. I wouldn't have scripted my life this way. And how many listeners can resonate with that? Like, we think we're going to hand God the script. Here, God, follow my beautiful script for my life. And he's like, no, actually, I have a different plan for you. And it's going to be good, just different than what you expected, right?
SPEAKER 06 :
All right. So a couple of things come to mind. First of all, I love it that you said you get to boss around your emotions because a lot of us don't take that, you know, control, you know, and trust God on that journey. And then secondly, I have one other friend who is so much like you. And it's interesting because I didn't know. I mean, I had a really horrible upbringing, too. But that part about the hers was like satanic abuse, sexual abuse.
SPEAKER 01 :
Yes.
SPEAKER 06 :
and was too and so yeah and i just couldn't wrap my head around like how delightful she is and kind and loving and i'm like how what's your trick what's your secret what was your path what's your formula because how are you like this and the same thing it was devastating to me when she told me and we've been friends now gosh probably 30 years when she told me that she told her family and they didn't believe her so there were family events where her you know parents got divorced there were family events where she wanted to attend and couldn't because the mom was included because people didn't believe even though it happened to another sibling as well but that sibling was not going to talk to my girlfriend really anymore and not and not really address the fact that it happened so that sibling didn't cross out the parent
SPEAKER 05 :
That's such a common story, isn't that? Oh, excuse me, I just dropped my headphone out of my ear. That didn't work very well. That is such a common story, that family members will actually ridicule or shun the person who's coming forward to say, hey, I was abused. It's unbelievable. I honestly believe that that is more devastating than the initial abuse.
SPEAKER 06 :
I know that might sound like a strange statement. Oh, wow. No, but just the disappointment. You're expecting a big hug, not a big rejection and a poke with a stick.
SPEAKER 05 :
Yes, it's like a double whammy. It's like, okay, this was done to me as a child, and now you're not defending me. Now you're not saying that that was wrong. That was so hurtful. And it took me a while to process that new trauma, that new pain. But God is so gracious. As we just lean on him and we start to walk through what it looks like to truly forgive, as we walk through what it looks like to let go of resentment and trust God. And actually, I started to ask God to give me compassion for my abusers, compassion for the people, the relatives who should have protected me. I started to ask God, give me compassion. Did they act out of their own will? personal issues where maybe they were scarred from their own childhood.
SPEAKER 06 :
And they don't want to address it?
SPEAKER 05 :
Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Usually it's the abused that end up abusing. So I asked God to just give me compassion, and I just trusted Him with it and said, Lord, I'm going to be kind to these people. I'm not going to act like what they did was fine, because obviously it wasn't, but I'm going to be kind, I'm going to be honoring, and I'm just going to trust you with the rest. And something else I learned to do, and you've probably heard about this before, But I committed to praying for them. I don't mean like pray that. I pray that they suffer greatly, not that kind of prayer. But I actually started to pray for them, that God would bless them, that God would speak identity to them, that God would lavish his love upon them. And that changed my heart. My heart was softer to them. God calls us to love our enemies, even our enemies. And it was freeing. It's such an odd dynamic, isn't it, Angie? Like you feel like This is flipped upside down, but often God's ways are seemingly upside down to us. But praying and loving and being kind to your enemies actually releases you from the prison of resentment. And it was huge for me.
SPEAKER 06 :
OK, the other thing that I wanted to that there are a couple of things that I I had never heard before, which is shocking because, you know, I've been doing this for 30 plus years. I've interviewed thousands of people, but I've never heard the part about repetitively telling your sob story because my mom will trap people. My my daughter, Faith, Faith and Hope, we were just recently with grandma and Faith would turn to me and she said she caught another one. And I said, oh, did she get one? And she'd have her walker parked near the entrance exit of like this museum where we were. And she will catch people. Now, granted, she's not going to tell the whole story to the person that she catches, you know, going in and out. But she starts talking to them, just a random stranger. Right. But if we're at a sporting event and she's sitting by a parent. She will trap them for that hour and a half game or whatever it is and talk at them nonstop. And somehow the topic will turn to her sob story. And I'm not lessening her pain by saying her sob story. No, I know what you mean. My kids don't even really know that much about her background except they've been told 20 times how her sister shoved her into a wall. They've been told 20 times how, you know, this thing happened with her dad. They've been told, you know what I mean, like, I mean, more than 20. Yeah. And so they've heard these stories, let's say 100 times. And so she'll say it again to my kids as if it's a brand new thing. And it's interesting because in some ways, in some ways, I feel like that she has. I emotionally abused my children, and I knew it at the time, right, because we've taken care of her for many years. So I said to the kids, like, this is kind of a form of emotional abuse. I know you understand Grandma now, but when they were younger, like, I felt some guilt over it because I'm like, she's putting her past on them in a really icky way. But as they got older, they started to understand her pain and her damage in a way that, like, they knew Grandma was a little bit kooky that she couldn't let go of things, you know, that she couldn't let things go.
SPEAKER 05 :
That's what she is. She has a victim mindset, which is very, very common. I had that, honestly, for like 20 years until someone actually looked at me, a godly woman, and said, She called me out. She said, you have victim mentality and you need to you need to get rid of that. And of course, I was like shocked and like, how dare you say that to me?
SPEAKER 06 :
Oh, no, I want to say I want to come back to that. OK, so you have to take a break. But I want to come back to that when that person had the guts to say that because they had nothing to gain except to the truth and honesty, you know. And so we're talking about the book Pivot, how to break free from grief, heartbreak, past abuse and resentment with Debbie Chavez. We'll be right back with the good news.
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Hey there, welcome back to The Good News with Angie Austin. Debbie Chavez is joining us, and we are continuing our discussion on her book, Pivot, How to Break Free from Grief, Heartbreak, Past Abuse, and Resentment. I was telling Debbie that my poor sweet mom, because she is a sweet lady, but boy, that you could tell her that you've got a bouquet of daisies for her, and she will find something negative about that bouquet of daisies. There's no silver lining. She's always got to find the sliver that bothers her about any situation. Yeah. She's told my kids her, you know, story of her past abuse so many times. And I'm not lessening it, but Debbie had said for the first time that I'd heard that people who were in that victim mentality retell their story to get sympathy from people. And it can be complete strangers. And every time we'd go to my dad's family reunions on his side of the family, he had to retell the story to every one of his sisters and his brother. And like they were over it. They didn't want to hear it anymore. It's their brother, you know. And so, Debbie, you just said that someone actually confronted you on that. And I want to know how that went down, because it takes a lot of guts for someone to say, hey, you're stuck in victim mentality. And a lot of us would get mad. But she doesn't have anything to gain except really to help you in the long run.
SPEAKER 05 :
Yes, and it was helpful. And again, I was outraged and aghast at the beginning when she said that. I thought, how dare you? Don't you know I've suffered so greatly?
SPEAKER 06 :
Yes, don't you know what I've been through?
SPEAKER 05 :
Yes. But I was, I guess, wise enough by that time to actually sit with the Holy Spirit and say, do I have that problem? And the Holy Spirit is so gentle and kind and gracious and merciful. And he did reveal to me, yes. And I started to realize that one of the signs of this toxic victim mentality is that you keep telling your story over and over and over again, because it's become your identity. And it's And let's be honest, it is comforting and wonderful when you have people expressing their empathy and sympathy. It's like better than eating a box of chocolate donuts. Oh, really? Is it? But, however, once you're done and they've walked away, you're left with that same old stinky victim mindset that is depressing and hopeless, and you have no joy in your life and no peace in your life, and you're just stuck there. And so when she told me that, I kind of woke up and said, Lord, help me to move forward and to stop telling this story. And literally now the only time I tell the story is, for instance, on this program where I'm just letting women know that, hey, I've gone through this. I understand you, but here's how God led me out of this pit. And so that's why I tell them that my story now is just testimony. But I don't tell it to anyone anymore because it isn't who I am. I will not let the devil keep me oppressed and depressed. It's like I refuse. I'm a very stubborn person. I refuse to let the enemy have the victory, and he has the victory when I keep struggling. stuck in that victim mindset where I'm hopeless and depressed. I have no peace. I have no joy. But boy, I got some sympathy from people as I tell my story over and over again. So if you can resonate with this, listeners, I'm urging you to ask the Holy Spirit to help you stop telling your story. Pivot from the past. Grab hold of God's hand and move forward into a new chapter of life with new adventures, new relationships, possibly new purpose, because you're not defined. You do not need to let the past define you. That's called kind of bossing around your emotions, not letting the past define you and the whispers of the enemy keep you oppressed.
SPEAKER 06 :
wow i um i don't i have done that with my mom but she hasn't it's kind of it is her identity um yeah so i don't know i i haven't really been too successful but she's she actually to be honest with you this last time she stayed with us because now my brother and i know we share the joy i call it you know we share the joy of grand grand so you keep her half the year i keep her half the year so when she came back this last time I told her, I'm like, look, if you want to help the kids with their chores, like if you want to do the dishes for them or you want to help them with your laundry, you are more than welcome to do that. But you cannot complain about it. So please do not help them if you're going to complain to me all day the next day about everything you did for them and how ungrateful they are. I'm like, please just let them do their own chores. They do them the six months you're not here. They're perfectly capable of doing them. So please do not help them if you're going to complain. And she didn't complain this time. and also she wasn't as angry this time and i told her i'm like this is the legacy you're leaving behind if you get that angry these kids like if they leave a backpack by the front door and you scream at them with complete rage i say she's on a rage roller coaster because she really is a sweet lady but she finds someone underneath her with less power to really take her anger on it could be someone delivering something to my house that she feels like oh well they're delivering something to my daughter so i can really let them have it or someone that's cleaning, cleaning my house or taking care of my kids. Oh, they're doing this for, you know, my daughter. So I'm above them. So I can really take it out on them or my children. It's never someone in a position of power. It's always someone that she quote unquote has power over. And so she unleashes her rage on them. And I'm thankful that my kids are pretty well adjusted and they understand how grandma is. But I have to admit, and I told her, because I probably don't give her credit where credit's due enough, but I'm like, Mom, you've really been so much more enjoyable this time you've stayed with us. It's really been fun. You've been so much less angry and you're not lashing out at the kids and you're not complaining all the time. And she said she's really been trying to work on it. And I think in her 80s that she's... Well, let's go ahead and just go through some of the things that you teach people in Pivot because I think a lot of people are stuck in this. So you write about these deep personal wounds you had and how you overcame the impact. So what do you teach people to do to do the same?
SPEAKER 05 :
Well, and it's all in the book. There's so much to go through. I go step by step. It's really almost like a study that you could do kind of slowly, like how to release that toxic resentment, how to carry out biblical forgiveness, how to recognize the lies of the enemy that he is whispering to you, and then to take every thought captive, right? We're told in 2 Corinthians 10, 5, to take every thought captive. So I do that now because I know the enemy is after every one of us, whispering little lies. Like, you're unlovable. No one really likes you. You're stupid. You'll never get over this. Oh, he loves to whisper. You'll never get over this. And I take those thoughts captive. And I say, no, that is not true. I boss around my feelings. And then I say, no, I'm going to stand on the truth of God. And what is the truth of God? Well, I recite some of those verses. Gosh, right after my divorce, I memorized Psalm 103, where he says that he redeems my life from the pit and crowns me with love and compassion. It's like, yes, this is the truth. And as I meditate on that, the truth of the Lord, and I take to heart Philippians 4, 8, when thoughts come to my mind that are negative, I'm like, no, I'm going to dwell on whatever is noble and true and right and pure and lovely. I'm going to dwell on those things. It changes my entire perspective, my entire attitude. And I love Isaiah 43, 18 and 19. That is kind of my signature verse for pivoting. Let me just recite this juicy one for you. It's delicious. Isaiah 43, 18 and 19. Forget the former things. Do not dwell on the past. See, I am doing a new thing. Now it springs up. Do you not perceive it? Isn't that the best verse? It's like, no matter what, trauma hit you in the past, a divorce, your husband cheating on you, death in the family, whatever it is. My son went to prison. I mean, these are horrific things, but you know what? God was not flabbergasted by any of those things. God didn't say, oh no, what in the world can I do to make this right? It's like, no. If we trust in the Lord, which I do with all my heart, and we grab hold of his hand, he says, this is not too difficult for me. I've got a plan to redeem absolutely everything just pivot from the past, take hold of my hand and move forward. And that's really the key is letting go of the past. And I have to kick my butt, kick myself in the butt sometimes to like, stop thinking about the past, move forward, ask God to open up my eyes to new patterns, new adventures, new relationships. And I am telling you, despite all the junk that's happened to me and the grief and the heartbreak and the trauma, I have deep, joy and excitement in this season of life, because God is not done writing my story. And listeners, he's not done writing your story either. There are new chapters to explore with him.
SPEAKER 06 :
Now, with your son, I mean, we don't have to go into specifics, but was he in the household with you when you were in your victim mentality and he was with your first husband? Because two of my four kids in our family, two went down the road. One was murdered, One was in and out of jail, not prison. And he's currently in kind of a mental health facility. And then my other brother graduated near the top of his class at West Point Military Academy. And then I put myself through high school and college working seven days a week. And then my first job was at NBC in L.A. So he and I did well. And then we're the two, of course, that take care of our mother now. I have probably. I mean, really, my mom is like my kid, to be honest with you. And I've taken care of her since I was, we started her retirement account when I was 19, I think. You know, me putting money in her retirement account. She still draws on it in her 80s, the money I started putting away as a teenager with my brother for her. I mean, it's so unusual that, you know, the way that we kind of thought she needed to be taken care of. anyway with that said um so do you think the upbringing because my my brothers were with my alcoholic abusive dad and my mom and her victim you know mode so she doesn't really step in you know when something's going on in the house like letting the kids smoke pot or whatever she's not going to step in she's if he says here you you should too and then oh oh i should okay well if you and the kids are doing it of course i should too you know what i mean like there's no like hey i'm the mom let's not do this because she didn't feel she had any power So with that said, do you think that impacted him? I'm not putting blame, by the way.
SPEAKER 05 :
Oh, sure. Oh, sure. I mean, when you grow up in a dysfunctional household, it definitely impacts you. And that's why I have compassion on all sorts of people who are acting out. Me too. They come from brokenness. Yes.
SPEAKER 06 :
Me, too. Oh, yes.
SPEAKER 05 :
Yes. They should stay stuck there. But yes, I have compassion. And, you know, I'm still praying for him that he's going to get completely healed by the Lord and completely turn around. And there are little baby steps forward here and there. But we all have that choice. Right. And who are we going to believe the whispers of the lies or or the Holy Spirit saying, I have a plan for you. And it's a good plan for a hope and a future, right, from Jeremiah 29. Like, I believe that. And so I can take a step forward with God's help to move into that instead of dwelling on all the hurts from the past.
SPEAKER 06 :
you know, my brother that, um, I'm the only one that has any contact with him. He calls me probably every, you know, every few months he'll leave me a message or reach out. He doesn't have a phone, but he, um, and sometimes he's in different institutions and sometimes he's heavily drugged. So it's, he's very difficult to, um, have a conversation with. And then other times he's semi almost normal, but I tell his son cause his son's in his mid twenties. He's a scientist. He's very smart. And I've always been very close with his son. And, um, And we still have, you know, a relationship. And from time to time, I'll say, you know, it's not his fault, you know, the way he is. I know that you don't, you kind of act like he's dead. But, you know, forgive him for you because, you know, my dad did the same thing to me. And forgiveness really helps you kind of move on from it. And my dad, actually, we did reconcile after about 35 years. And he ended up being a really fantastic grandfather again. and he was a grandfather to my nephew too because i said to him you know hey you know roy had a kid and um he he's not in his life but you know he's really outstanding he's super bright and uh he's being raised by a single mom and uh and he reached out to him too so he saw me all the kids saw me forgive my dad and by the way my kids didn't even know i had a father because i never had a bad thing to say about him because i didn't have anything to say about him right so i'd say at about eight my son said you know do you have a dad and i'm like oh yeah actually you know so you know they had no clue so they i think the three of them met him around maybe my 10 8 7 something like that and then they you know had a great relationship with him i want to make sure people can find the book because you said there's so many steps in pivot how to break free from grief heartbreak past abuse and resentment debbie chavez what's the best way for people to reach you
SPEAKER 05 :
Just go on Amazon, type in Debbie Chavez, and it should pop up, or Debbie Chavez Pivot. I learned that there are a thousand books named Pivot, so don't just type in that. Just type in Debbie Chavez in Amazon, and it'll pop right up. and get a hold of it because I go through so much about like how to set up boundaries if you do need boundaries with someone in your life, but how to use boundaries appropriately and how to do it biblically, what it really looks like to execute biblical forgiveness, which is not always reconciliation, but it is biblical forgiveness, how to get rid of resentment, how to detect lies of the enemy, all of those things that will help you move forward and actually find the joy and the peace and the healthier relationships that God wants you to enjoy.
SPEAKER 06 :
Well, Debbie, thank you so much. What a blessing to have you. And I just saw that we also have the, I was a news anchor for many years, and I see you were as well. So we'll definitely have to have you on again to talk about all of that. Thanks, Debbie.
SPEAKER 05 :
Wonderful. Yes, blessings to you and your listeners.
SPEAKER 03 :
Thank you for listening to The Good News with Angie Austin on AM670 KLTT.
Join Angie Austin as she hosts a heartfelt conversation with Grace Fox, diving deep into life's real struggles as shared through compelling stories. From personal journeys of letting go to understanding the psychological roots of attachment, this episode is filled with insight and introspection. Discover how faith and perseverance can transform arduous paths into enlightening experiences. The episode also shifts focus to the pressing topic of foster care, featuring expert insights from Kristen Pratt of Foster More. Learn about the challenges and triumphs involved in fostering and how communities can step up to support this vital cause. It's an episode that underscores resilience, hope, and the courage to face life's uncertainties. Immerse yourself in engaging narratives as our guests share their personal stories of overcoming journeys, the emotional ties to possessions, and the fortitude required in fostering. With thought-provoking discussions on securing peace through faith and fostering hope through love, this episode offers both encouragement and inspiration to navigate your life path.
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Welcome to The Good News with Angie Austin. Now with The Good News, here's Angie.
SPEAKER 06 :
Hello there friend, Angie Austin and Grace Fox. And today we are talking about real life struggles from her book, Fresh Hope for Today, Devotions for Joy on the Journey. Hey Grace. Hi, good to talk to you again. All right, so tell us about real life struggles.
SPEAKER 05 :
All right, so I wrote this one after interviewing a friend. Her name was Nancy. She lives in Oregon, actually. And she talked to me about how she and her husband had decided to take a hike. And so they trudged, as she described it, trudged four miles uphill through the forest. And they began second-guessing their wisdom in choosing to do this hike. but she said that they persevered and they got to the top of a, when they got to the top, it was this meadow that was just filled with flowers and glacier fed streams. And she said, it was just so beautiful. They sat down and had a picnic there and thoroughly enjoyed their time. It was that kind of a space where you work so hard to get somewhere. And when you, when you finally arrive, it's just so beautiful. You don't want to leave. And that was like their experience. And, And so when I heard her story, I thought, well, that is like real life in that sometimes we end up on a journey that is so arduous. And it's maybe not by choice, but it's just something that happens. We end up on this path that is so hard. And we just don't know that we're ever going to reach whatever it is we're trying to reach. But finally, the Lord just brings us into a place of rest. and it's it's a place that our soul is longing for after all of that maybe hardship that we've just come through but where we can sit down and we can rest and we know that he's with us and we know that he's got us and he's holding us close but wow it's you know the destination of getting there and experiencing that rest for our soul is good but the pathway to getting there is sometimes really hard
SPEAKER 06 :
Can you think of examples like in your own life where that really applied to you as well? And you're like, oh, I'm going to write this because I can really relate to this.
SPEAKER 05 :
Yeah, I think that when my husband and I sent the Lord nudging us to purge almost all of our earthly belongings to move aboard our sailboat home. And we didn't have a boat. It's not like we had this boat sitting around and we could just move into it. We had to find one that worked for living aboard and find a place to moor it. It was a journey that took a lot of energy mentally and emotionally as I had to part with all of these things that I counted precious. It was a path. It was arduous. And we didn't have a long time to do it. Once we got on it, once we actually found a boat and bought it, we had like six weeks to get rid of our stuff. And it was a path that wore me out in some ways, just emotionally every day, getting up and sorting again and purging again and saying goodbye again to these things that we'd held dear. But once we completed that and arrived, moved into the boat, settled in, And realize that, wow, you know, like this was a time of really stretching our faith and growing our faith. But we saw God come through. And it was a time of thanking him for that opportunity to walk that tough path. But to come to that place of knowing full well that we had obeyed him completely. And there was peace in that, even though I'd said goodbye to all these things that I'd once held dear, there was peace in my heart and there was joy in having obeyed. And it was something that, yeah, we walked that path and it was hard, but wow, it's been worth every step.
SPEAKER 06 :
You know, it's interesting you talk about, you know, peace of letting go of things that you once held dear. It's so hard sometimes to part with them. And there's some organizer lady that, you know, basically says, if you feel, if that item brings you joy, you know, keep it. And of course, if it's something you haven't, you know, used or worn or whatever for many years, you know, even if you're like, oh, I might wear that again. There's really no sense in keeping it. But I wonder why we have such a hard time letting things go. My... Mother-in-law has... The family calls her an organized hoarder. And so she has a basement that's probably 1,500 square feet. And it's the most organized basement stuffed to the brim with like 200 purses, you know, 400 pairs of pants. And they're those stretch pants that... you know like senior citizen ladies wear that you can slide on and have thanksgiving dinner and they still fit just fine in every color of the rainbow and then i'm like well why are there like 20 yellow pairs well she used to be super skinny so there's like you know three pairs and a size four three pairs and a size six three pairs and i'm not i'm like oh my gosh like you could never if you wore these pants every day like You probably, she couldn't even wear them like at the end of her life now and go through all those pants. You know what I mean? Like it's just crazy to me and she won't let us down there. Like my son really wants to go down there because he's a thrifter and he's been allowed down a couple of times like with oversight. Like she'll be down there with him. And he might get like a hockey jersey that my husband had when he was little. Or this last time my son came home with a stack of photographs of like my husband when he was, you know, a kid and in college. And then some from when we first got married, like probably 50 pictures. So that's what he came home with. But usually he gets like a little thing. I even got down there. Oh, I couldn't believe that was allowed down. But I needed one of those like shopping bags kind of like to take on the plane that... you know fooled up and she had some nicer ones down there that were like designed or whatever so I found a small one that you could maybe put like the size of like two bottles of wine maybe so that was perfect for like my snack on the plane I go oh look there's another one there's a matching one I'm thinking oh I should take both right she goes oh no no no no no don't get greedy girl And I'm looking around, right? Even three of the purses that I gave her, they're just hanging down there collecting dust, right? Like coach bags. And I'm like, are you sure you've never used that coach bag? Are you sure you want to keep that? Like I gave that to you 20 years ago. I would definitely use that. Oh, no, no, no, no. And I'm like, what? What is it? I don't understand the psychology grace behind that kind of hoarding. You know what I mean? And I know they say it can relate back to maybe losses. Like her dad was a police officer and he was killed in the line of duty when she was like maybe 8, 9, 10. And I've heard that like losing, like if you lose a child or lose something big, like somehow hanging onto these things. And I know that that's not like the Christian way to do it. We're not supposed to get our like comfort and our like, you know, out of things. They're not supposed to give us like that comfort. Right. But it's perplexing to me. Like I can't wrap my head around it, but it's got to have something to do with it giving you comfort or comfort.
SPEAKER 05 :
um security something like that you know that we're supposed to be secure through christ but apparently we're secure through 200 pairs of pants and 200 purses yeah the word security came to my mind as you were talking and i think that's it is that we look to things for our security but if that house burned down if that house were to burn down today how would she respond right like if she found her security in those things that'd be a significant loss for her But the one thing about hanging on to the Lord and finding our security in him is he's never going to leave us. Nothing's ever going to take him away from us. The scripture says in Romans that nothing separates us from his love. And so no matter what happens, even on those tough walks that we take through life, sometimes doesn't matter where he leads us or what he asks us to go through or what he allows in our life. still we can find hope and we can find peace and we can find joy if our security is in him and not in stuff that can be gone in a heartbeat.
SPEAKER 06 :
Yeah, and I think with so many of the people, I keep seeing these pictures because I've got so many friends in the news business in Los Angeles. And one of my girlfriends went out really early this morning. And, you know, I don't think we can really wrap our heads around the loss that those people experienced, right? And I know everybody says, well, you know, you still have your life and things can be replaced, etc., etc. But it's a whole... change of like all those lives because it's not like a house in your neighborhood burns down and oh you get rid of it you rebuild like it's so toxic up there and now they'll have problems with mudslides right but your grocery store is gone your library is gone your mechanic is gone all your neighbors homes are gone so like then you go up there and you rebuild and in the midst of all this toxic you know material that's up there and even working up there you know how how easy is it going to be to get workers that want to go through all this burnt toxic you know you know destruction that they need to throw into a big dumpster and you know start from the ground up and then the soil and i don't know just that kind of loss um you know, being secure in Christ, we're supposed to find our security there. But I can imagine when you return to your neighborhood and you don't even know if there's a possibility of you rebuilding, like, I'm very curious to see what it'll be like in 20 years. I'm assuming the oceanfront Malibu homes where those people have money coming out of their ears and they're like $10 million houses, those will get rebuilt because even if you don't have insurance money, you're loaded and you can rebuild. And the people in Pacific Palisades, you know, those are very expensive homes too in the millions, but some of them may have been in a different position of maybe owning it for 30 years and they they aren't multi-millionaires it just became millionaires because the you know real estate values went up so much but you know i'm just very curious to see what that will be like in 20 or or so years if it is all rebuilt because it is such a prime spot but i sometimes i feel like so the picture that i had when my friend sent all these pictures out today um was of just kind of despair and just kind of like a hopelessness that many of them feel about, you know, where do we go from here kind of feeling. And I think some of us have that feeling about other things in life, you know, where we end of a relationship oh gosh where do i go from here or the loss of someone a loved one you know how do i work my way through this how do i claw my way out of this i just watched a documentary um on avicii this dj who was so talented just oh so talented and he committed suicide and i just thought to myself like gosh, you were such a genius with creating music. If you didn't want to do those concerts, couldn't you just stop doing the concerts and just create with other, he was working with the top of the top of the top, you know, musicians. And couldn't you just do that? Like, couldn't you see your way out of it? And I know that that's why we have faith. I know that's why we have like the Lord to turn to. But I just think people get lost in a sea of despair sometimes.
SPEAKER 05 :
I agree with you on that. I think depression and anxiety are on the rise. And I just want to encourage listeners today to not give up, to keep putting that one foot in front of the other, just like my friend and her husband, as they were going on that path. They didn't know it was going to be four miles long. They didn't know how long it was going to take or how arduous, how steep it got. They just heard it was a great path. So, you know, the path that we end up on, we don't know where it's going to lead to eventually. We don't know sometimes how steep it's going to get. But like these poor people that have lost so much out in California, they don't know how long this is going to take before they can return to their life or what their life is going to look like. What is their new normal going to be? Where is their workplace going to be? Where are their kids going to go to school? What about their church family if they lost their church? So, you know, everything is disrupted in their lives. But to not give up hope, just every day put one foot in front of the other on that path and persevere because eventually it will even out. We don't know what that will look like. There are no guarantees, but It's going to be okay is what we want to say, right? It's going to be okay.
SPEAKER 06 :
Well, I always love, you know, your Fresh Hope for Today devotions. That's the book, Fresh Hope for Today, Devotions for Joy on the Journey. If you want some hope, it's a great book. Always enjoy talking to Grace Fox. And if you want to find her and her books, you can go to gracefox.com. Thank you, friend. Thank you.
SPEAKER 03 :
Manitou Springs is listening to the Mighty 670 KLT.
SPEAKER 01 :
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SPEAKER 06 :
Hey there, friend. Angie Austin here with the good news. Well, you know, if you've listened to the program over the years, I guess I've been on, gosh, radio and TV like 25 years. So many of you know my background and I have a real heart for foster care because I spent some time in foster care growing up and really was appreciative of the families that took me in. Joining us is Kristen Pratt, and she is with Foster More, the leadership team. Welcome, Kristen.
SPEAKER 04 :
Thank you so much for having me, Angie.
SPEAKER 06 :
All right, so let's just start off, first of all, I know that there is a need for foster care. I've seen books where it's like page after page after page of kids that are looking for homes. So is this crisis in America worse now? And just tell us about the foster care crisis in general.
SPEAKER 04 :
Yeah, so... Any given day, it fluctuates a bit, but there are approximately 400,000 children in foster care in America. So it is, it has seen some slight improvements the last few years, but a lot of those kids are experiencing, you know, over two to three placements a year, the majority of them. And so there's a real need for loving, stable homes for these kids who are facing a lot of obstacles.
SPEAKER 06 :
Yes. Oh my goodness. All right. So I know that you guys do some research and there was a barrier, a significant barrier preventing, you know, families from stepping forward to, I'll tell you what my mind would be. Well, first of all, I have three teenagers, five pets and off and on my 82 year old mom. But my barrier would probably be my husband. But I might be able to work on him like once the kids are gone, because they're all in high school now. But the barrier for me is my spouse, like I would do foster care. And I know it's rough. I don't have any fairy tale like version of how difficult it could potentially be. So what are the barriers that people see in terms of becoming foster parents?
SPEAKER 04 :
Yeah, I mean, that is a barrier, like your spouse, you have to both be on board. But We always tell people, too, there's a need for foster parents of all kinds, all ages, you know, empty nesters, young people, older people, single people. So there's really, you know, anyone can step up there. And one of the things that we found that people would say is that they couldn't take the time off work. So they'd say, well, my job doesn't allow for me to take that time off work. And, you know, like there's a lot that goes into that. Um, when the child is placed in the home, not only do you need that time to bond with, with some child who has by definition experienced some trauma, but you also need the time to get them enrolled in a new school and doctor's appointments and, you know, all the appointments. So you really, it's important to have that time off when the child joins a home and a lot of businesses don't provide for that. And it stops a lot of potential foster parents from moving forward when they find out that information.
SPEAKER 06 :
Um, have you, have you, like, is this something that you try to address with businesses to try to, I know that my, my station that I worked for one of the gals on the, one of the weather women, uh, adopted a child and she got, you know, the typical time off that you would get. But in this case it was an infant, but I know some businesses do give you time off, but I would. assume with a single parent that that would just kind of like you know take that option off the plate for them to become a foster parent but do um does the foster care system help with things like um you know daycare if you're getting like a kid that's two three four that needs you know daycare during the day they do there are it depends on the state you live in but there are some you know provisions for that and that's another thing that we work with businesses like if a business has on-site child care um we ask that you know
SPEAKER 04 :
youth in foster care if someone becomes a foster parent their child can be um immediately have access to the to the facility yeah but um yeah one of the things we realized is that a lot of the businesses that were offering like you were talking about adoption paid time off for adoption or birth foster care was just overlooked because yes you know a lot of people think of foster care as a road to adoption. And so they get, you know, the time off when the child is adopted, but you really need that time off when the child is placed in the home. And the child is not always adopted in foster care. About half the time they're reunited with the parents. So we need all different kinds of homes, people that want to adopt, people that want to be there for a family that needs some support. And so we want to make sure that businesses are specifically giving that time off for just being a foster parent
SPEAKER 06 :
Now, I understand that Foster More is obviously helping with this whole workplace initiative, you know, trying to get places to make it more, you know, user-friendly to become a foster parent. Can you talk about that?
SPEAKER 04 :
Yeah. So at Foster More, we have sort of like a ladder of engagement on our website. We try to engage people in all different ways. So, you know, if you want to learn about becoming a mentor for youth in foster care, if you want to have the opportunity to pack a duffel bag or get involved and volunteer in different ways, you can start on our website to do that. And one of the tabs on the website is to become a foster parent, where you can fill out a little form, and then we can connect you with someone, depending on where you live, someone in your local area that can help you learn about becoming a foster parent. And the same thing for the workplace pledge, there's a tab on the website where you can learn more about If you're a business owner or an employee and you're interested in having your business become officially foster-friendly, you can do that on the website, too, and we'd be happy to talk more to anyone about their business becoming foster-friendly.
SPEAKER 06 :
All right. I'm just wondering, you know, for people listening today who are thinking about becoming a foster parent, I know a lot of it seems like overwhelming and, you know, all the things you have to tackle to be approved, et cetera. So how do you recommend people get, you know, started on the process? Obviously your website with all the tabs, you know, a really good idea. But how can someone personally, I mean, talking to someone, that's a great idea that you just gave us. What else?
SPEAKER 04 :
Yeah, well, again, research shows that it takes about 18 months to two years for people. Once they start thinking about becoming a foster parent, you know, do you have the idea to actually become a foster parent? So, you know, it does take, and as it should take a lot of thought for people, it takes a lot of research. So it's something you can start looking into. It's a little bit different than requirements in every state. You can start asking people about it. You can look into other ways to, to get involved and volunteer first. I mean, the need is great for foster parents, but if you want to learn more about foster care, you can volunteer. There are tons of amazing organizations all across the country doing great work. You can learn more about how to get involved in different ways. you know, maybe on the path to becoming a foster parent, as well.
SPEAKER 06 :
Now, in your particular case, what I always love to get people's passion for things, obviously, I'm interested in this topic, because I live with families and relatives, and I only had one, quote, unquote, official foster home, but I had many places where I stayed, you know, so what what what is behind your passion for this kind of work?
SPEAKER 04 :
Yeah, I've always been involved in working with kids. I have a background in special education and I became a CASA, which is a court appointed advocate. And that's something people can look into as well, where you support a youth in foster care, you go to court with them and you're sort of their mentor and their person along the way. And so I learned a lot about foster care that way. And just, you know, the more it's something that, like I was saying, people don't talk about that much, but it's such a big issue. And once you, it's like you can't unsee, you know, what you've seen and what you've learned. And it really requires so many more people to step up in any way that you can. And I think it's something that you realize, like, we're all connected to this issue. It's not just a sort of other or someone, you know, far off that you don't know. Like you said, like almost all the time, When we talk to people at businesses, we hear stories like yours where it was like I was in foster care. My cousin was in foster care. My parents were. I was a foster parent. And so so many people are connected. And it's just not only when you provide the workplace benefits, you're also getting people to talk about it, too, which is so important. And that's why we really appreciate you having us on, too, so we can talk about it.
SPEAKER 06 :
Now, I'm wondering in terms of I know that there's like people are thinking, oh, foster care, you know, I'm going to have this kid for 18 years. But there are other, you know, that sounds terrible, but I said it like that. But you know what I mean? Like people are overwhelmed by the prospect of having a child that long or maybe someone, you know, like myself, who's already raised their kids, who's maybe looking at teens or something of the sort. I know you can specify what you're interested in, but is there also like emergency short-term care where you might just have a baby for a week or, you know, like shorter-term options per se? Now, one of my girlfriends, she's a nurse, her husband's a doctor. They did have a short-term situation. And then once the little girl had stayed with them for quite some time, she told me, well, we're going to adopt her. And I was like, wow, like your kids are in college, like yikes. And she said it's the right thing to do because she'd been with them for so long.
SPEAKER 04 :
Yeah. So most places you can sign up for respite care. So that's basically like giving a foster parent a weekend break or a few day break. Oh, I've never heard of that. Yeah. So that's a really cool way to sort of like dip your toe in and get involved. It's called respite care. And also there's a really huge need for people that don't want to adopt from foster care that they just want to support. Because like I was saying, the goal of foster care, the ultimate goal is is to support whole families so that kids can be reunified. And that, you know, doesn't always happen. And sometimes, you know, the best situation is for them to stay with the foster parents. But if at all possible, you try to support a whole family so that the child can be reunited with their biological parents. And that requires people to step up temporarily, right? Like that's so important. And I think a lot of times people think of it more as like a road to path to adoption, which it can be. But there's a huge need for people that want to just be there and provide a safe, loving, supportive space for a child in the family who's going through a crisis.
SPEAKER 06 :
All right. We only have a couple of minutes left, but I can't believe I've never heard of respite care. Okay. So would you keep the child for the day or is this something like more like several days or do you kind of take them maybe on? I know CASA, they take them on like outings and things like that from their foster situation. So what are the possibilities for respite care for a foster parent?
SPEAKER 04 :
So respite care, you know, I think it depends on each in each state. I think it's a little bit different, but most of the time it's, you know, two, three days you're certified as a foster parent. So you would have to get the certification, like, you know, the cost of you're not, you have to have like a background check and everything, but you're not certified as a foster parent. So if you're doing respite care, you have to go through the whole process of making sure your home is suitable and everything. And then it would be, I think the time really varies, you know, it could be, Two nights, three nights a week. It's just really that time, like say a foster parent needs a break or is going on vacation or has a family emergency, you know, and they need to go out of town. So someone providing respite care would give them that.
SPEAKER 06 :
Yeah, I think about, you know, business trips. Okay, we have one minute left. Tell me your takeaway. What do you want to tell people that are, like, kind of on the fence? Like, what do you want people to know if you had a one-minute elevator speech to give to us?
SPEAKER 04 :
I think the main thing we want people to know, and this is what we say at Foster Mer, these kids are amazing, and they're resilient, and they have the potential to overcome anything, and they really just need someone... to step up and be there for them. The outcomes for kids in foster care are not great, and that can change if we as a society and as individuals step up and are there for these kids.
SPEAKER 06 :
Well, I sure appreciate all that you do. My foster care situation was quite interesting because I come from a family where my dad has his PhDs, well-educated, but we had a lot of, he was estranged from our family for like 35 years. And then one of my brothers was murdered. Another one ended up homeless. Wow. Here I graduated top of my class. I worked full time all through high school and college. So for somebody listening, just the opportunity to stay with my foster family and other families that really cared, I think really made a difference in my life and where my first job was at NBC News out of college in Los Angeles. So thank you, Kristen, for all you do for others. Really appreciate you.
SPEAKER 04 :
Thank you so much, Angie. I'd love to hear more about your story.
SPEAKER 06 :
I'd love to talk again. Thanks, Kristen.
SPEAKER 02 :
Thank you for listening to The Good News with Angie Austin on AM670 KLTT.
In this thought-provoking episode, Angie Austin brings forth conversations that challenge us to rethink the way we view our lives. Jim Stovall shares his insights on breaking free from a mediocre existence and what it means to truly live a fulfilling life. Through poignant anecdotes, including the tale of a man planning a new chapter post-incarceration, listeners are invited to reconsider the power of a single life-altering decision. Moreover, Angie’s conversation with Dr. Scott Adzick explores pioneering work in fetal surgery, offering hope and insights into life-saving medical advancements. As Dr. Adzick talks about training future specialists, the episode also highlights the importance of mentorship and legacy in impactful work. Listeners are encouraged to reflect on their passions and make deliberate choices that align with their values and dreams. Whether it's a career change or finding joy in volunteering, this episode serves as a guidepost for navigating towards a life of significance and satisfaction.
SPEAKER 04 :
Welcome to The Good News with Angie Austin. Now, with The Good News, here's Angie.
SPEAKER 03 :
Hello there, friend. Angie Austin, Jim Stovall with The Good News. And today we are talking about your best life. Sounds like the best column. I love this, Jim.
SPEAKER 05 :
Well, thank you. It's a phrase we all kind of borrow from Oprah. And she probably got it from somewhere else. But, you know, and the premise is that... we have a choice. We can live our best life. We can live our worst life. And, you know, I'm well aware of the fact that bad things happen to good people. And, you know, it can either be a something that defeats you or a springboard to greater success. And Walt Whitman said, I am not one person. I am many persons. You know, I'm a giant. I'm a dwarf. I'm wealthy. I'm poor. I'm you know, successful, I'm a failure, all these things, because he realized that inside of each of us is the potential to be all of those things. And, you know, we all have those moments, those days, those periods of time that change that. I had a gentleman in my office last week who I met at a fundraiser event I was doing for a Oh, a faith-based group that helps people getting out of prison. Okay. And he had made a horrible series of decisions when he was 15 years old, and it ended up with him killing a guy, and he spent the next 35 years of his life in the penitentiary. So I met him at age 50 when he just got out, and he had been in prison every day since he was 15. And, you know, and it's just amazing. He recounted what happened to him that morning. And he made a couple of dumb decisions and put himself in a bad place. And there you go. I mean, it wasn't some big conspiracy plan or something. It was a momentary thing. And his life is there. So he talked to me about the fact that, okay, that's been your life up to now. But now you're 50. For the next 35 years, you can decide what do you want your life to be. And you have to have a double good life from here on out to make up for that first part. So you've got to come back. You're like a team. You're two touchdowns behind. You've got to make up for this. And he's making plans to do that. And we all have the ability to live a great life or a poor life. Unfortunately, most people... live right in the middle. They live a mediocre existence. And in our country today, Angie, it doesn't take much to be mediocre. You can just kind of drift through life if you want to, and that's where it is. Or you can change your life by changing your mind, and you can live a great life. And it's all about making a decision. And you can have one moment right now today that changes that, just like the guy I told you about, When he was 15 years old, he had one moment he did something really stupid and ruined his life. Well, the contrary is true. We can all have one moment where we make our mind to change. I remember a moment like that for me, and my life will never be the same. I just don't want to live like this anymore. I'm sick and tired of being sick and tired, and that's it. And, you know, many things go back to that. And I just decided that's it. We're not living like this anymore.
SPEAKER 03 :
Was that the loaf of bread?
SPEAKER 05 :
Yes, indeed. Yeah, we miscalculated our groceries as we were going through the grocery store. And Crystal had to go put back a loaf of bread. And it was embarrassing and frustrating. And I just said there is no reason I should ever live like this. I'm just not going to live like this anymore. And that changed my world.
SPEAKER 03 :
And you two, weren't you first and second in your college class when you graduated?
SPEAKER 05 :
We were indeed. We were indeed. But we had gotten way in debt, and I was blind. And at that point, I thought disabilities means you couldn't do stuff.
SPEAKER 03 :
Oh, interesting.
SPEAKER 05 :
Everything I knew about being blind, I learned from people that told me what that meant. And it's no different than all of us going through life if we're mediocre. Someone told us this is how you live. And people that live a pinnacle existence, a mountaintop existence, they either had somebody amazing tell them how they could live life, they read a book, or they just got a vision of who they could be, and they just decided, I'm not going to be that way anymore. And I read about once this bald eagle had fallen out of the nest and had been taken in through a set of circumstances. It ends up with a bunch of ducks that have just hatched. And this eagle, you know, was raised by this mama duck and, you know, and took on the character. This eagle thought he was a duck. And he walked like a duck, talked like a duck, you know, even started quacking like a duck. I mean, and took on those characteristics. Oh, my gosh. we have a tendency to become like our environment or the people around us, and we can change that. And any time we don't like it, we can change the channel. Sometimes we act like it's a wired-in broadcast and we're stuck with this. No, you've got 500 channels. You can do anything with your life you want, and you change your life when you change your mind. And that's why every once in a while you need somebody to come along And think, what would your best life look like? I mean, what would you do if you could do anything you wanted to do? Because the reality is that's where we all live.
SPEAKER 03 :
Now, what did you tell this guy? So he made a mistake, killed somebody when he was 15, didn't plan it. And all these years later, he's 50. What did you tell him to do in order to live his best life?
SPEAKER 05 :
Well, I told him, first, we've all got to decide what it is we want. What do we want the end to look like? And he's working on that right now. We're going to have another meeting next month. But I said, then you got to look at what talents, abilities and experiences do you have? And he said, well, I don't have any. I said, that's where you're wrong. There are people going into prison, getting out of prison. There are people who need to make quality decisions to stay out of prison. And you have a unique life. You can speak to those people. And you know what it's like on the inside. You know what it's like out here. And more than anybody I know, you can speak to that issue. And, you know, we talked about him, you know, consulting with people, writing a book, helping young people in high schools. I mean, you know, when you have a guy walk in and say, I'm 50 years old. I mean, you know, I'm as old as your parents and almost your grandparents standing here. And when I was your age that you are right now, I did something really stupid and I ended up this way. And, you know, and maybe you could help a handful of kids from avoiding that. And, uh, that would be a good life. You, you, you would be living your best life when you use the talents and abilities and experiences you've had to help other people. So he and I talked about that and, um, You know, and he's got a job. He's the place that I help raise money for. They help people get jobs, and it's not a great job, but it's a job. And he has an apartment, and it's not a great apartment, but it's a good place to start. And as he pointed out, it's better than a jail cell, and the neighborhood's better. So he's feeling pretty good about it.
SPEAKER 03 :
Whenever I talk to interviewees that I find particularly interesting, I figure out where they got their passion for what they do. And one of the doctors that I've interviewed that is coming up again is Dr. Adzik, and he does fetal surgery. And he told me, I'll never forget, of all the thousands of interviews, I'll never forget, he said, what's the most satisfying thing about your work? Or when have you felt like, wow, I'm really doing something that makes a difference? He goes, well, every year when I go to the big party for the kids that I've done fetal surgery on, so it might be heart surgery while the baby's in the womb that saves its life. He goes, I see him throwing the football and having a great time together, enjoying the party, eating their hot dogs or whatever they're having. And he said, and I think, wow, this is really great work that I do. This is this is really I'm making a difference. This is very satisfying. I thought, wow, what a cool thing, because he's working on cleft palates and club feet, heart surgeries, spina bifida, you know, all these things that we never would have operated on a baby in the womb. Right. It's just so fascinating to me. And so I started talking more recently about like finding your passion. Like you said, what are you interested in? What are your skills like? you know, what are your values, where do you think you could add, whether it's, you know, a job where you're going to get paid, or whether it's going to be volunteer work, because I've been writing all this down myself, trying to figure out, you know, what I'm going to do next, as my kids are, one, another one's leaving this year, you know, Riley just went up to, moved up to campus just recently, because he'd been commuting, and then the next one goes to Tennessee in about six months, and then I'll have one left at home, so really just thinking about, you know, what's next, so I like, you know, how you are kind of setting him on the right path to what he wants to do next after all those years in prison and knowing that he can still make a difference.
SPEAKER 05 :
Oh, absolutely. We all have the ability to do that. And then sometimes we forget, like you were talking about your doctor. I met a young lady the other day, a young lady, and she's probably in her mid-40s, and I was speaking at a university. And she's the dean of admissions and teaches at the university, and she came up and introduced herself. I said, it's nice to meet you. And she said, you don't know who I am, do you? And I said, well, you just told me who you are. And she said, no, no, no, no. 1988, I'm a college freshman. I ran out of money. I was getting ready to drop out of the university and go back to my job as a waitress. I went to the mailbox there on campus to turn in my key. I had one envelope left there, and it was a letter from you telling me I got a scholarship. And I finished college and got a graduate degree, and now I'm dean of this university. And she said, it all started because you made that envelope happen. And I said, well, thank you, but no, you made all that happen. You did every bit of that. But I said, I will tell you, from time to time, it's a hassle running a scholarship, and you just gave me plenty of motivation for the next 10 years. I'm good to go.
SPEAKER 02 :
Wow.
SPEAKER 03 :
That is, that's, whew. Well, speaking of making an impact, there you did, but I want to tell you one other thing. You know my friend Dr. Cheryl Lynch, she's a professor and just a really neat lady, and she writes books as well, and she wrote me a note the other day, and she said, she I'm reading Jim Stovall's book, The Gift of a Day, 100 Doses of Winner's Wisdom. And this quote from Chapter 7, Crystallize What I Do. Could we do a segment on this sometime? I'd really like to talk about it because Jim has such a way with words. And here's what he said that brought me to tears. And the quote, I'll start with the whole thing, but then I'll highlight what you said that made her cry. Influence can be either good or bad, and it can be overt or subtle. We are all being influenced, and we are all influencing others every day. And here's the part that got her. If we learn something, we change our world. If we teach something, we change another person's world. But if we teach people to teach, we change the whole world. And she said that really encapsulates what she does as a professor, and that made her cry.
SPEAKER 05 :
Well, that is good. I think we ought to laugh some every day, cry some every day, have good memories. And, you know, that needs to be a regular part of our day. And it's a good thing. And please tell her I am greatly honored.
SPEAKER 03 :
She's a good one. All right. So in your best life, we've got about a minute left. What's our takeaway here?
SPEAKER 05 :
Examine the life you're living right now. We spend very little time. We spend our lives worrying about stuff that happened in the past we can't do anything about or fretting about stuff in the future that may or may not even happen. And we never take a look at what am I doing right now and is this really what I want to do or did I just kind of end up here? You know, someone told me to get in that line and here I am. And really take it, do it on purpose and, you know, really start living your best life.
SPEAKER 03 :
And I love it. You always say, today's the day. And it says, you and I are much the same, and our best lives await. As you go through your day today, trade your ordinary life for your best life, because today's the day. And that's jimstovall.com, jimstovall.com. Thank you, my friend.
SPEAKER 05 :
Thank you. Be well.
SPEAKER 03 :
You be well. Brighton is tuned to the mighty 670 KLT Denver.
SPEAKER 01 :
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SPEAKER 03 :
Hey there, friend. Angie Austin here with the good news. Well, I'm really excited about our next interview. Did you know that nearly 150,000 babies every year are born in the U.S. with birth defects, many with conditions so rare that some of the parents and clinicians have never even heard of them? approximately 5,000 fetal surgeries done worldwide to treat these birth defects. A quarter of them had been performed at Children's Hospital of Philadelphia. Dr. Scott Adzick is a fetal surgeon who specializes in treating these babies' unique needs. And today we're discussing advancements that will save even more lives. And we've had Dr. Adzik on the show before and over 30 years in TV news and radio news. I worked at NBC for many years. I've interviewed thousands of people. And Dr. Adzik is one of my all time favorite interviews, which he doesn't even know this. His work is fascinating and lifesaving. Welcome back, doctor.
SPEAKER 06 :
Geez, thanks for the introduction, Angie. That was awesome.
SPEAKER 03 :
You know, I'm fascinated by people's passion for what they do. And I asked you once, hey, what's satisfying about your work? You know, what gives you great, you know, satisfaction? And you said these kids come back for this like party that you have to celebrate the kids who've been saved, you know, in, you know, you've operated on them before they've even been born and you're like and here they are like teenagers and they're throwing the football and you know I mean not you're humble but they're alive because in some cases you did this surgery on them and you're watching all of these kids playing that really I mean you kind of help save their lives I mean that's so cool that's very cool and you're right and that sort of sounds a little bit like me I don't even need to do the interview I mean you the line look
SPEAKER 06 :
It is true that each year in June, actually this year is on June 1st, Sunday at the Philadelphia Zoo, you're invited. Oh, I'd love to go. I have a fetal family reunion and patients, children and their families come back. And last year we had over 3,000 people there. And that's usually for the most part just folks who are local and regional, not just who are national since the program was started. It was started in 1995. This is 30 years for us. We've had more than 33,000 pregnant women carrying babies with birth defects referred to us from all 50 states and from more than 70 countries. So that is inspiring. There's so many children whose babies likely could have died running around and growing up healthy and strong. Actually, there's nothing better. Nothing better.
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, I want to talk a little bit about some of the advancements, because this is so fascinating to me anyway, that you can operate on a baby while it's still in the mom's tummy. I mean, to put it down to the basics of what you do, but I mean, it's so technical and they're so tiny. Talk about some of the birth defects that you can help via this surgery.
SPEAKER 06 :
Okay, well, there's a whole long list. and we've been fortunate to be pioneers in many of them. The two most common, though, I'll touch on are spina bifida and twin-twin transfusions. What's spina bifida? Well, you know, but I'll explain it to your listeners. That's where, in the developing fetus, the tissues around the spinal cord don't develop normally, so the spinal cord and the associated nerves are exposed to the in-utero environment, which is principally amniotic fluid, which in the third trimester is quite neurotoxic, destroy the developing spinal. These children, when they're born, they're likely to eventually be wheelchair-bound, have motor function problems, have hydrocephalus, fluid on the brain, require a ventricular peritoneal shunt to drain the fluid into the abdomen, and so on and so forth. We can now treat this condition in selected cases. Before birth, we've done about 500 of these operations since I think it was the first one in 1998. And the children who have the operation between 23 and 26 weeks gestation, in an operation, it's on average about 70 minutes. The outcomes, this is not a cure completely for spondylobifida. Children that have this before birth are much more likely to walk, have much better motor functions. Much less likely to have hydrocephalus, much less likely to need one of those shunt tubes. That's reporting and we're now doing, obviously, the long-term follow-up. The first case was in 1998. We're now doing the follow-up, which goes back almost 30 years.
SPEAKER 03 :
The condition is about... And I hate to interrupt you, but for people that aren't as familiar with it, I had a girlfriend who was very young when she had her first baby. She's now in her 20s. And they told her that her baby had spina bifida and said, when do you want to schedule the abortion, basically? And she was like, what? You know, she didn't even know what it was. And so she, you know, did some research, et cetera. And this kid is amazing. They have four, five kids. And she's like the light of their lives and helps with the other kids, et cetera. And, you know, she does have some issues with walking, et cetera, wears braces. But, you know, a high functioning mentally, you know, has graduated from high school and did really well. But I mean, that's the option that some people are given and they don't even know about you. So that's another reason I think what you do is so amazing. Like people who would have not kept their baby... we're letting people know that, hey, there's this other option where they can have a much better, possibly, quality of life if they have this fetal surgery. So I just wanted to throw that in there.
SPEAKER 06 :
Well, and that's one of the reasons why we're doing the interview now, just for information so that folks can be knowledgeable and aware. The second most common operation we do is an operation for twin-twin transfusion syndromes called fetoscopic laser therapy. Well, what is that? Well, Twin-twin transfusion syndrome, TTTS for short, is identical twins in the uterus, of course, each within their own amniotic sac. As opposed to each of the two twins having their own placenta, which is the disc between the mother and the fetus's umbilical cord, these twins share a placental disc, one placenta. And the setup is that there's an imbalance of circulation such that there are abnormal crossing blood vessels from one side to the other, such that one twin, one identical twin, gets too much blood and develops congestive heart failure, and the other twin doesn't get enough blood and goes into kidney failure, and both twins will go on to die, unless you do fetoscopic laser therapy. So what is that? Well, the mother has sedation, sedation, It's a fetus coat placed through her abdominal wall, like laparoscopy, into the uterus. We visualize that the sona use a laser fiber that will coagulate or occlude those culprit vessels. And in most instances, both twins save.
SPEAKER 03 :
You know, the work you do is so highly specialized. And I was reading about an award you received last year. And in the article I was reading, it said that you trained over 50 other or helped, you know, train 50 other doctors. And it talked about other people. So not only are you doing this groundbreaking surgery, but, you know, in Philadelphia, you're also helping, you know, other younger people learn to do what you do, because obviously there will be a time when you're not doing this anymore. So I think that's pretty a pretty cool privilege as well.
SPEAKER 06 :
I think so, and it's an important part of our mission, of course, to train future professors who now run fetal programs throughout North America, South America, Europe, Far East. That's very gratifying, and it provides greater access for more patients, more unborn patients.
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, I could talk to you for another half an hour, but I know that I've got a time limit here, so we've got another minute. Besides giving us the website, what else do you want us to know?
SPEAKER 06 :
Well, the future's bright. Talked a little bit about the artificial womb, about in-utero gene editing. There's a lot of other stuff going on. Very, very, very exciting. That's three varies.
SPEAKER 02 :
Would you give us the website so we can get more information, doctor? And I'd love to have you back. You're always welcome on the good news.
SPEAKER 06 :
Thank you. Fetal surgery, one word, that.
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, always a pleasure. Dr. Scott Adzik, always a pleasure to have you on fetalsurgery.chop.edu. Thank you so much. A real blessing to have you on the show.
SPEAKER 06 :
Thank you.
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, he is amazing. I just, like I said in the intro, I just was so, you know, I've interviewed him before. And when he told me the story about the kids, you know, getting together for that, you know, yearly party to kind of celebrate their lives, seeing those kids toss the football and play and do all those things and just be amazing. living their lives because of this fetal surgery that he has done on them for various issues. Some of the heart issues are obviously life-saving and the spina bifida surgery is life-changing. So, wow, I just think what he does is... I mean, not many people can do what he does. All right. So, and how cool that he's training so many other physicians to, you know, do the kind of work that he does because it's not that common. All right. So I started this last week where I told you, you know, let's find our passions because I love to talk to all these people about how they, you know, got a passion for what they do in my 30 plus years now of interviewing thousands of people. I just love to hear why they chose what they do. And, You know, I've interviewed so many interesting people in, you know, politics or, you know, physicians always fascinate me. Their brains are so wonderful. And, you know, nonprofits, you know, my friend Lloyd Lewis that does work with kids with cognitive deficits. You know, kids are differently abled and, you know, maybe had a hard time getting through school. And, you know, he gives them benefits. jobs and they add so much to the organization. They have such big hearts. I mean, some of the kids that I've met with Down syndrome, his son has Down syndrome, are some of the most loving people I've ever met in my life. It's like they have an extra gene for love, you know, and joy and happiness. So then that became his passion, you know, working with You know, young people, you know, who he employs over 500 now ambassadors. So how do we find our passion? And I've told you repeatedly, I'm looking for my next thing after my kids are raised. So what am I going to do? Am I going to volunteer with pets? You know, so as I mentioned last week, so number one, reflect on your interests, you know, minor animals, kids, older people. um being active hiking you know and then identify your strengths so you know i love ymca the rockies maybe i go up there you know in the summers and i lead hikes i knew a guy who did that and you live up there and you don't really get paid much you just kind of get free room and board and spend the summer but you know ymca the rockies and that's always kind of intrigued me how fun would that be um and then keep you know besides your strengths and you know what you're interested in what do you spend your time on so pay attention to what you do in your free time you know what are you doing in your free time are you exercising are you Are you lifting? Are you spending time with your pets? Are you going for walks with your dogs? Are you volunteering at the local elementary school? Are you helping kids learn how to read? Are you volunteering? Like, you know, volunteering might be a great way too to figure out your next even career path, right? Because you can volunteer in an area of interest. Internships, I think, are great ways to really get your foot in the water. My daughter wants to be an attorney, and I'm like, you should definitely do an internship at a law office and really be with these attorneys and see what they do before you make that kind of a commitment to that kind of education. Explore new things. Try new activities. Meet new people. Connections. Meeting people is so important. Just getting out there, chatting with people. You can even ask for connections on social media. Hey, does anybody know anybody that works with animals? Does anybody know anyone that works in law? And people will connect you with people. It's amazing what they do. I just had a really sweet friend of my daughter's move to Colorado Springs and she was homeschooled and really involved in her church. And I knew a girl that I met at 10, who's now close to 30. And I knew she was really involved in kids ministry, particularly working with young women. And I knew she'd have connections for her. So I just randomly connected them on text. And hopefully they're going to be able to, you know, the older girls can be able to connect the younger girl to some other Christians in her community. So I'm very hopeful for that. And then journaling. I mentioned that last week to write down your thoughts, your feelings, your direction. I think sometimes we get direction when we kind of do prayer and journaling to kind of get an idea of, you know, where we want to go. And writing for me really helps me get those ideas out and put them on paper. And that kind of guides me. But then speaking of guidance, seek out someone, a mentor, a friend. I used to have an accountability partner, which was another newswoman in Los Angeles. She's still the main anchor at Fox in L.A., And we would hold each other accountable every week. We'd go over, you know, what were your goals? Did you follow through on what you wanted to do? Did you do blah, blah, blah? So and then think about your values, you know, what might work for you, you know, in terms of your own values and what's important to you. So, yeah, all of that. And, you know, of course, fears like get rid of those. Just go for it if you want to try something new. All right. This is Angie Austin. Thanks so much for listening to the good news.
SPEAKER 04 :
Thank you for listening to The Good News with Angie Austin on AM670 KLTT.
