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Join Steve Gregg on this engaging episode of The Narrow Path, where faith meets real-world challenges. Christmas Eve brings an array of callers with diverse questions about their spiritual journeys. A highlight includes a discussion on integrating faith in the workplace while maintaining harmony and professionalism. Steve shares practical wisdom on when to engage in conversations about religion and when to practice discernment. The show also touches on the fundamental differences between Catholic and Protestant Bibles, providing insights into the historical and doctrinal distinctions. Additionally, Steve speculates on questions like the potential repentance of Adam and Eve, encouraging deeper
SPEAKER 1 :
Thank you.
SPEAKER 02 :
Good afternoon and welcome to the Narrow Path Radio Broadcast. My name is Steve Gregg and we’re live for an hour each weekday afternoon, including today, which is Christmas Eve. We will not be live tomorrow on Christmas Day because our entire studio staff will be having a day off. And so we won’t be able to engineer the show. And so we’ll be playing a recording of past calls to the program tomorrow. Today, however, is live. And you can reach me right now if you have questions about the Bible or the Christian faith you’d like us to discuss. Or you see things differently than me, feel free to call. We’ll talk about that. The number is 844-484-5737. By the way, we have a lot of lines. Most of our lines are open right now. Maybe a lot of people shopping, last-minute shopping, but this is a good opportunity for you to get through. 844-484-5737. Our first caller today is George calling from Scottsdale, Arizona. George, welcome to The Narrow Path. Thanks for calling.
SPEAKER 01 :
Merry Christmas, Steve and Dana and the screen and the staff. Thank you. My question… On Facebook, you were commenting that you’re not a Calvinist, but you’re not Arminian either. And this is a naive question. I just assume that you’re not Calvinist by fault you are Arminian. Can you tell me where you differ from Arminian without becoming Calvinist?
SPEAKER 02 :
Well, the reason I say I’m not Arminian is not because I don’t hold views similar to Arminian. I certainly would be much more Arminian than Calvinist. It’s just that Arminius had a whole scheme of theology, which I have not myself read. I have it. I have his writings, but I haven’t read everything he wrote. And some of the things he’s written I wouldn’t agree with, and I don’t remember all of them now from having read what I have. It’s not that I’m disowning or disclaiming Arminian beliefs. I’m simply saying to call me an Arminian… is not really quite accurate, only because I haven’t followed anything that Arminius wrote in the conflict between Calvinism and Arminianism. It is true, if you’re not a Calvinist, it is usually assumed you’re an Arminian, but there are other things. I might even be more, as they would say, semi-Pelagian. I’m not sure. I don’t follow Pelagius either. My position is to follow the scriptures and not try to conform to any particular camp. I will say, though, that the views I hold, as near as I can tell, are what we could call the primitive views of the church. Now, Arminius and Calvin were not primitive people. They lived, of course, during the Reformation times and beyond. The early church, before the time of Augustine, was not Calvinistic. Augustine introduced the doctrines we usually associate with Calvinism, but Also, of course, they weren’t Arminian. Arminius hadn’t lived yet. They weren’t trying to conform to some system that Arminius had set up. But rather, they believed that man had a free will. They believed that God did not ordain everything that man does. They believed that if God did that, then man could not be held responsible for his actions. This is what the church fathers said, all of them, who spoke about it. And there were a lot of them who did. So I would be in the primitive camp, you know, that is the earliest church fathers, what they believed about this. And, of course, I would say what Jesus and the apostles taught. So, you know, rather than connect my views to a given man who lived in the, you know, 16th century, my views go back to, in my opinion, the apostles and Jesus and were held by the earliest Christians for the first 300 years or 400 years. So I would just say my views are the primitive. Now, again, if you say, well, if we divided all people into roughly Calvinist or roughly Arminian, which would you be? Certainly, I’m roughly Arminian. I’m not ashamed of the title. I just don’t want to give people the wrong impression. I don’t want to give the impression that somehow I’m aware of all of Arminius’ theology and happen to be in his camp. I’m sure that I am in agreement with Arminius on a number of things. On the other hand, I’m in agreement with Calvin on some things, but not the five points.
SPEAKER 01 :
Okay, that makes sense. So if I understand correctly, your difference is, first of all, you don’t align – you’re not endorsing Arminius. You’re simply saying I go back to the beginning. And the second thing is you don’t have specific differences that you can – It’s just that you haven’t read them. So how can you agree with something if you don’t know? That’s largely true. That’s largely true. Yeah.
SPEAKER 02 :
I read a little bit of Arminius. I had his works.
SPEAKER 01 :
Yeah.
SPEAKER 02 :
I think I do. And, you know, he talks about the divine decrees, just like Augustine and Calvin do. I don’t find anything in the Bible about these decrees, the decree of the fall, the decree of election, the decree of, you know, reprobation and so forth. These are terms that are often used in that debate. And Arminius used those terms and seemed to go along with them just as much as Calvin did, but had different opinions about some of them. But I don’t even see the whole concept of these decrees mentioned in Scripture at all. So that would be an area where I wouldn’t simply just place a stamp on Arminius and say, yeah, what he says is true. Okay, okay.
SPEAKER 01 :
I hadn’t gotten that far. I mean, I don’t spend a lot of time on it. I just realized, well, whatever, it doesn’t make any difference. So anyway, I thank you for that. If I could make a comment on something else that you responded to on Facebook, you said that God created man to tend to the world. He wouldn’t have made creation without including man to tend to it. I think that’s a fair representation of what you said. And I think, hey, I’m created in God’s image. And I like to watch elephants romp, and I like to watch giraffes and rhinos, and I’ll bet God does too. So he doesn’t need men to enjoy elephants and rhinos and hippos and giraffes. Just an observation, not an argument or a critique, just a comment. Anyway, I thank you very much for all that you do. I’m sorry, I didn’t mean to cut you off.
SPEAKER 02 :
No, George, I appreciate your comments, and I agree with you. I believe that God… takes pleasure in his creation. And he took pleasure in all the parts of the creation that he made before man. He looked at everything he made and it was good. He liked it. But it wasn’t until he made man and woman that he said, it’s all very good. In other words, it was excellent. It was exactly what he was going for. And, you know, it says in Isaiah 45, 18, thus says the Lord who created the heavens and who is God, who formed the earth and made it, who has established it, who did not create it in vain, who formed it to be inhabited. I am the Lord and there is no other. When he says, I made it to be inhabited, we could say, well, he made it to be inhabited by fish and birds and animals, but that doesn’t seem to be the case. I mean, them too, but he made it to be inhabited by people. It was when he made man in his own image. That’s that was on the sixth day, late on the sixth day. And it was the it was the thing that caused him to start the week creating light and land and vegetables and animals. So, yeah. So, I mean, he it was man that he had in mind from the beginning. And he made the earth as a place for man. And it says, you know, throughout scripture that man is given the earth as his domain.
SPEAKER 01 :
Yes. Yes. Okay. Great. Thank you very much. And again, Merry Christmas to all of you guys there. Okay.
SPEAKER 02 :
Thank you, George.
SPEAKER 01 :
God bless. Okay. Bye-bye. Bye.
SPEAKER 02 :
Okay. Our next caller is Julianne from Vancouver, B.C. Julianne, welcome. Hello.
SPEAKER 06 :
Hi. Hi, Steve. Um, I’ve just recently become a Christian and, um, I was actually baptized on the 22nd. Um, I found a nice church. Yeah. And I’ve been listening to you and this station and it’s really helped guide me in the right direction towards God. So thank you.
SPEAKER 02 :
I’m glad to hear that. Thank you.
SPEAKER 06 :
Um, I’m calling because, um, I have found God and I do feel a peace and it’s given me lots of biblical truth that I’m still learning. But, um, I do have post-traumatic stress disorder, and I was in some cults as a kid that weren’t my choice. So there’s a lot of trauma. And I’m just wondering, will it take time to integrate everything? Because I’ve heard some people are delivered right away or the sanctification is instant. I’m just wondering how can I… I’m listening to… I refer to Isaiah 43. because that helps me to not feel overwhelmed. But I do feel overwhelmed when I interact with people or when I get triggered.
SPEAKER 02 :
Well, yeah, I don’t know much about the specifics of post-traumatic stress syndrome, but I mean I know that people get it from trauma and from a traumatic upbringing in your case. As far as how long it will take to feel like you’ve gotten over it, That is not something that could be predicted only because you asked is sanctification something that happens all at once or is it progressive? Well, it’s usually progressive. Now, when a person becomes a Christian, a lot of times their testimony is that something that had been a serious problem to them, maybe a habit, an addiction, fears or something like that, something changed immediately and they were totally delivered from it right away. But But that doesn’t mean they were delivered of everything. And it certainly doesn’t mean that everybody instantly sees that kind of a change. When you begin to follow Christ, you enter the path with Christ. And as you grow, as you learn from him, the truth makes you free, Jesus said. He said, if you continue in my words, you’re my disciples indeed, and you’ll know the truth, and the truth will make you free. Well, you learn, of course, the truth gradually. You may find that as a Christian, some things in your life changed instantly, and that would be about par for the course. Most Christians do find that conversion changes some things in their lives instantly. It probably should, but not in every way, not everything at once. Some people, for example, who are heavy smokers, when they get saved, they just never touch a cigarette again. Others really struggle with smoking. They eventually beat it. But it takes them years sometimes. I mean, it’s like we have different battles. We are here to conduct battles. We’re in warfare here. Some people are delivered of their drug addiction. I’ve heard of many people who are heroin addicts, and when they got saved, they suddenly came. They were suddenly delivered of it. Cold turkey, no withdrawal. They just were done with it. Other people really have to go through struggles. Now, whether you’re going through struggles with something, that somebody else got delivered of immediately or not, does not necessarily speak of the quality of your conversion. It just means that God does different things in different people’s lives. There is a theology out there which was taught by John Wesley, but which I don’t find in Scripture, although I like Wesley very much. He believed there was a second work of grace, In the Christian life, like now, you know, you got baptized a couple of days ago. Well, some point in your future, he would say there was awaiting you the opportunity to have a second work of grace, which would be total sanctification, which is or entire sanctification, which, you know, suddenly, you know, you become sinless and all your all the troubles with your flesh are gone and so forth. Now, I don’t know of anything like that happening. It’s not in the Bible, and I don’t know of anyone who’s really experienced that. Maybe some people have, but that’s not really what most people have, and that’s not what the Bible describes. The Bible describes when you become a Christian, you enter the battle. You’re recruited into a spiritual warfare. You’re wrestling against principalities and powers and rulers of the darkness of this age and spiritual wickedness in the heavenly places. But you have Christ, and he’s fighting the battles through you as you are faithful and trusting of him and obedient to him. You will all the time of the battle be subject to attacks from the enemy and from his exploitation of weaknesses that you have. Now, if your weakness is post-traumatic stress syndrome, that may be an area where struggles will continue for a while. I mean, I don’t know what God will do in any individual’s life because, again, everyone who comes to Christ has a different, you know, cocktail of problems that have to be overcome. And God works differently on different issues with different people as he sees fit. But I would say, I would expect that as you are filled with the Holy Spirit and walk in the Spirit and you conduct, you know, the good fight of faith when you’re struggling with those things and you put your trust in Christ, It doesn’t mean the struggle will go away, but it may eventually be that it becomes more of a rare thing or maybe it’ll become completely healed. I can’t say that it won’t be. I just don’t want to make you think that if it isn’t, something’s wrong with you. You know, I mean, it’s about average for Christians to struggle with sin for a good portion of their lives. But that’s because we spent so many years, you know, entangling ourselves in it. It says in 1 John 3.8 that for this purpose the Son of God was manifested that he might, it says in one translation, destroy the works of the devil. The word in the Greek means untangle or undo the works of the devil. So when Christ came, he came to unravel the devil’s work. But the devil’s got all of us tangled up in, you know, messes that we’ve caused and that he’s caused through us. and unraveling those is not an instantaneous thing necessarily. Yes, I see that. But it’s progressive. It’s progressive. So I would just say as you meditate day and night on the Word of God, which is the most important and often most neglected thing in the Christian life, just meditating and praying, I think that over time you’ll be getting more victory and you’ll be recognizing that.
SPEAKER 06 :
Thank you. I’ve been listening to your verse by verse commentaries and from the narrow path in your lecture series. So that’s been helping. And I do see many blessings from God that like there has been lots of fruit. I was just wondering about like limitations and disabilities and like sometimes it’s just hard when people don’t. Sometimes it’s just a disability, and you just have to live with that. And there is also many blessings, too, from God. Right.
SPEAKER 02 :
Now, there are physical disabilities, to be sure. I mean, there are people who obviously are blind or they’re deaf or they have physical disabilities. And there are some people with some disabilities that have to do with their brain function. Though not everything that we call a disability necessarily is physical or a lot of it just is changing our habits of thinking and being delivered from certain kind of demonic patterns that the devil brings against us. But it’s a progressive thing. I would like to recommend to you something you can have for free from our website called I wrote a couple of books called Empire of the Risen Sun, book one and two, which is, I believe, frankly, I think those books contain everything that most people need to know about, you know, successful being a Christian. But although the books can be bought at Amazon, you can listen to the audiobook for free. from our website, thenarrowpath.com. And I would strongly recommend that you listen to those books. I mean, I don’t know if you learn better by reading or by listening, but, you know, at least the audio book is free. If you go to thenarrowpath.com and there’s a tab that says books, I think those books would be very helpful to you as a new Christian.
SPEAKER 06 :
Yeah, I love audio. And I remember you mentioning that before, so I’m going to listen to that tonight. Thank you so much.
SPEAKER 02 :
All right, Julian. Thank you, and congratulations for coming to the faith.
SPEAKER 06 :
Thank you so much, Steve. God bless.
SPEAKER 02 :
Yes. Oh, by the way, before you go, are you aware of our mobile app?
SPEAKER 05 :
No.
SPEAKER 02 :
You have a smartphone, I assume?
SPEAKER 05 :
Yes.
SPEAKER 02 :
Is it Android or iPhone? iPhone. iPhone. Okay. If you go on the Safari browser on your iPhone and just look up a website, thenarrowpath.app. It’s actually a web-based app. You don’t get it from the App Store or whatever. But if you go on the browser, any browser really, and go to thenarrowpath.app, you’ll find there a way to download our app on your phone. And once you have it, then you can listen to those audio books, or you can listen to any of the lectures, or you can listen to the radio show from your phone, and you can do that anytime. So I would recommend you do it. It will show you how to download it.
SPEAKER 05 :
Okay, awesome. That sounds great. Thanks for your time.
SPEAKER 02 :
All right. God bless you.
SPEAKER 05 :
Merry Christmas. Bye.
SPEAKER 02 :
You too. Bye now. Okay. Peggy from Indianapolis, Indiana, welcome. How are you? I’m fine, thanks.
SPEAKER 10 :
I would like to know, I heard the other day that your soul is not supposed to cry out, but your spirit is supposed to cry out. I don’t know where you heard that.
SPEAKER 02 :
I don’t know where you heard that. I’m not sure why anyone would say that. What was your question?
SPEAKER 10 :
I listened to… The radio all the time, and I’m listening to different pastors say different things.
SPEAKER 02 :
Uh-huh. Yeah, I’ve never heard anyone say that in the Bible business.
SPEAKER 10 :
Really? Yeah. Well, he said that your soul should be emotional or something like that. And I’m trying to figure out, well, what would be the difference between your soul and your spirit if you’re not supposed to get emotional about the Word of God?
SPEAKER 02 :
Yeah, well, I don’t know why it would be wrong to get emotional about the Word of God. Some people are more emotional than others. I know a lot of people who are more emotional than I am about it, but I don’t see anything wrong with it. I mean, I do think that there’s times when you are so moved by the truth of the Word of God that you can get choked up. I know I can. But to question, apparently somebody said, well, you shouldn’t cry out to God with your soul, but you should with your spirit. There’s nothing remotely like that in the Bible. That’s just the preacher making up his own theology, really. And I can’t defend it. You know, it sounds like you’re looking for more clarity on that. And I’ve never even heard that suggested before, but it certainly isn’t in the Bible. And I can see why you’d be confused, but I just say put that out of your mind and don’t be confused. Just listen. Just cry out to God with whatever capacity you have when you need him. That would be my suggestion.
SPEAKER 10 :
Is there a difference in the soul and the spirit?
SPEAKER 02 :
Pardon?
SPEAKER 10 :
The difference in the soul and the spirit?
SPEAKER 02 :
Well, yeah, the Bible doesn’t really say much to differentiate between the soul and the spirit. In fact, there are some people who don’t think there’s a difference between them at all. There’s two theological points. One is that there is, in fact, a difference between the soul and the spirit, and that both of them are different also from the body, and so you’ve got three parts, body, soul, and spirit. This view is called the trichotomy view of human nature. There’s also Christians who are dichotomous. They don’t believe there’s three parts. They believe there’s only two. One of them is the body, and the other one is the non-physical person, what Paul calls the inner man. or the hidden man of the heart, which can be referred to as the soul, or it can be referred to as the spirit, or as the heart, or as the mind. These are all different ways of speaking of the inner part of the person, as opposed to the outer part. You know how Paul says, though our outward man is perishing, our inward man is being renewed day by day. He doesn’t say whether that inward man is the soul, or the spirit, or or that both words are different words for the same thing. There are maybe some very few things in the Bible that might suggest a distinction between the soul and the spirit. But there’s not much. Certainly not enough to make it something God would expect us to have some kind of mastery of. The Bible doesn’t really clearly talk about that. But often the inner part of man is called the soul, and the inner part of man is called the spirit and the heart. And the mind. So these are different ways that the non-physical part of us is expressed. Now, if that non-physical part of us is divisible into soul and spirit, And I will say this, I personally think it probably is, but we don’t really have any solid biblical teaching to distinguish them and to tell us what the differences are. My thought is, and this is not something that’s got, I mean, it’s just my thought. It’s obviously based on my reading of the Bible, but I can’t claim that the Bible says this clearly anywhere. My thought is that the soul does refer to your personality, your mind, your emotions, and your will, primarily. And that the spirit is something somewhat deeper within, the part that bears the image of God and connects with God. It does say in Romans chapter 8 that God’s spirit bears witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God. Now, He doesn’t distinctly say that the spirit is something other than the soul, but it does seem like the spirit of man connects to the spirit of God in some special way. Paul said in 1 Corinthians chapter 2 that, what he said, who knows the deep things of a man but the spirit of the man that is in him. So also no one knows the deep things of God except the spirit of God. So there is something, there is some possibility that the spirit is distinguished from the soul, but not in a very clear way. And if it’s not very clear in Scripture, it’s not necessary for us to necessarily know. I mean, obviously, if that was an important thing for us to be able to separate and understand, God would have said something rather clear about it. So I wouldn’t worry about it. And as far as calling out to God with your spirit, that’s certainly nothing for you to worry about. I don’t think a preacher should say that because he doesn’t have any biblical basis and it just confuses him. someone. So I just counsel you not to be confused and just walk with God. Alright, we have a break coming up here, so I’ll take some more calls afterwards. We have another half hour. We have a couple lines open if you want to get in our next half hour. The number is 844-484-5737. The narrow path, as we often tell you, is a listener-supported ministry. We have no payroll. We have no expenses, except that we do pay over $100,000 a month to radio stations so that you can listen to it for free on the radio. You and many thousands of other people can hear the program for free because we buy the time from the radio stations. If you donate to The Narrow Path, the money you donate will go to buy radio times. because there’s no other items on our budget. We just buy radio time. So if you’d like to help us stay on the air, you can write to The Narrow Path, P.O. Box 1730, Temecula, California, 92593. Or you can donate from the website where everything is free. It’s thenarrowpath.com. I’ll be back in 30 seconds, so don’t go away. We have another half hour.
SPEAKER 03 :
Thank you for listening to The Narrow Path with Steve Gregg. As loyal listeners know, the Narrow Path Radio Ministry does not have anything to sell you, but does have everything to give you. You can help the radio ministry continue to give and grow by going to thenarrowpath.com and donating your year-end tax-deductible gift. Your giving will help lift the spirits of many more people throughout our nation. Thank you and bless you.
SPEAKER 02 :
Welcome back to the Narrow Path Radio Broadcast. My name is Steve Gregg, and we’re live for another half hour, and we’re taking your calls. If you have questions you want to call in with to talk about the Bible, the Christian faith, anything like that, difference of opinion you might have with the host, feel free to call. The number is 844-484-5737. That’s 844-484-5737. Our next call comes from Jacob in Sacramento, California. Hi, Jacob. Welcome.
SPEAKER 11 :
Hi, Steve. Thanks for taking the call. My question relies on I’m curious to know what you think about the role of the Christian in the workplace in terms of how we ought to really defend our faith. And to give you some context, you know, let’s say you’re in a work setting and and someone blurts out something, and there’s multiple people there, and it is an obvious affront to Scripture. In that moment, how do you suspect would be wise to respond as a Christian, or maybe do you? I’ve had many instances where I want to, but I feel like it would just cause division and more angst. within the workplace, and I find it more wise to maybe not say anything, and at the same time I feel guilty for not saying anything. So that’s my question.
SPEAKER 02 :
Well, I don’t think the workplace imposes very many other obligations with reference to defending the faith than any other setting you might find yourself in with unbelievers. I would say that when you are among unbelievers, you are a representative of Christ. That doesn’t mean, however, that you have to speak up every time there’s something you could say or every time someone is wrong. It seems to me like you’re exhibiting some discretion, which is what should be the case. Discretion would mean you’re trying to decide, is this going to be a profitable thing for me to speak up or is it more profitable? Is it better? less divisive or less trouble or whatever, to say nothing at this point. There’s a time to speak and a time to refrain from speaking, of course, as it says in Ecclesiastes. And, you know, you don’t have to speak up every time you hear something that you could respond to. So I think maybe… You have to ask yourself, you know, is this thing that has been said that I want to respond to, how much damage will it do if I just let it go? I mean, is the person who said this wrong thing, are people hanging on his every word and likely to go astray because of it? Or are they just going to take it with a grain of salt knowing that he’s not an influential person over them? If he’s misrepresenting the Bible… Just, you know, once in a while I’ll see a meme online that misrepresents the Bible. I have to decide, okay, is this something I need to speak up to or not? I could spend all my time responding to such things and only deal with a tiny fraction of them. So you can’t answer everything. So I think you need to use your discretion, like you said. There are times when it would be very unfair to your employer. if you simply got a group of employees embroiled in a debate when they’re supposed to be doing work that they’re paid to do. On the other hand, if the job is the kind of thing where conversations can flow freely and doesn’t interfere with work and doesn’t bother the boss for any kind of conversations to go on, then you can decide how eager you are and prepared you are to engage in an ongoing conversation if that’s what it becomes. I mean, it’s often the case that someone will say something that isn’t true, isn’t biblical, and you could say nothing, and probably most people won’t remember that it was ever said. You’d just go out into the ether, and it’s as well as if it hadn’t been said. Or you could just say something simply like, that’s not the way I understand that, or that’s not what the Bible teaches. I mean, you could say something like that, and without seeking to stir up trouble, it might do nothing more. They might say, oh, I thought it did. Or, you know, I don’t know. It depends on how contentious are they. Are you talking about somebody saying something that’s not true, or are you thinking of some other kind of speech? Are you talking about them taking the name of God in vain or something? What are you thinking of?
SPEAKER 11 :
No, in general, you know, they’re saying something that’s not true, but in relation to… the Christian faith. And, you know, these people that I’m thinking about, two in particular, they just happen to be louder voices. And I guess one of my concerns is, you know, a loud voice that speaks so often may tend to change opinions of people, let’s say, let’s call them on the sidelines. And I wonder sometimes if I’m maybe not stepping into a role and being bold where I should be and calling it wise in place. And so I just kind of, you know, I like what you’re saying. I suppose I wish there was an easier way to clarify things at work without, like you said, maybe compromise.
SPEAKER 02 :
Could you give me an example of maybe the last thing that person said? I’m trying to think of what kind of thing you’re wanting to say.
SPEAKER 11 :
Yeah, the last one that comes to mind, I was asked, it was kind of around the water cooler, you know, hey, what do you believe? Do you have a faith that you believe in? I said, you know, yes, I am a Christian. And it kind of went around, and someone said, you know, I think the world really would be better without religion and really without Christ. Yeah. And I had a lot to say in that moment, but the workplace, it kind of, how it does, you know, it morphs, and then you have other responsibilities, and then so you kind of never get back to that conversation. Meanwhile, it’s been said. Meanwhile, it’s been heard. And so sometimes you want to stand up on the table and kind of scream it from the rooftop, so to speak.
SPEAKER 02 :
I could think of a couple of things you could say that would just deal with that without aggravating things. I mean, if someone said, I think the world would be a better place without Christ, You could just say, well, my world wouldn’t. Or you could say, have you ever been to any part of the world that’s totally unfamiliar with Christ to see whether it’s better or not? Because there are places like that. And generally speaking, by the standards we could endure, they’re not. They’re not better than the places that have been influenced by Christ. I mean, you don’t have to go into depth. I mean, there’s a lot you can say. There’s whole books there. about how Christianity has made the world a better place. But you don’t have to get into that. You could basically just say, you know, you could say, why do you say that? Or you could say, well, that certainly isn’t true. My world’s a lot better with Christ. Or, you know, I’d rather live in America than in India, frankly, because America’s been shaped by Christianity and India’s been shaped by Hinduism. I think some religions do make the world worse. If someone says, I think the world would be better without religion, I’d say, well, yeah, I think so too. But the world would be a disaster without Christ.
SPEAKER 11 :
Yeah, it sounds like I just kind of need to, you know, have maybe a little bit less, or I guess be willing to have these sort of one-drop responses and let it just float in a very sort of peaceful and non-divisive way.
SPEAKER 02 :
Yeah, I mean, yeah, you don’t have to get into an argument. You can say, wow, that’s an interesting thought. It certainly doesn’t seem true to me, you know. Can you ask them? Can you give me an example of the way the world would be a better place?
SPEAKER 08 :
Yeah.
SPEAKER 02 :
I mean, generally speaking, I think it’s best if you don’t want to, you know, be aggressive and sound like you’re starting a fight to just ask a question about it. Like there is a meme I saw online today. where a guy wrote, Jesus was born to an orphan girl who was forced to marry a man twice her age. Now, that was the meme. Jesus was born to an orphan girl who was forced to marry a man twice her age. I simply wrote, what are you basing this on? Is history simply something you make up as you go along? And someone wrote back and said, wanted to know what I thought was wrong with it. And I said, well… First of all, there’s nothing, it’s never testified anywhere that Mary was an orphan. Secondly, it’s never testified that she was forced to marry anyone. Thirdly, there’s never testified anywhere that the man she married was twice her age. Everything about the meme was simply fiction. But I like to just say, well, how do you know that? Or why should I believe that? You said it, but should I believe it just because you said it? I mean, these are the kind of things you don’t have to You don’t have to prove them wrong, although many times it’s easy enough to do. But just say, okay, you just made a statement. Is there some reason I should find that authoritative? Is there some reason I should believe that? You know, can you give me some background, some support for that? Generally speaking, they can’t. Most people are just used to piping off whatever’s on top of their head. And, you know, if you just hold them to account, just say, oh, well, why do you say that? Why should I believe that?
SPEAKER 11 :
Well, I appreciate that perspective. Thank you. Yeah, and it helps me kind of keep my cool, too. So I’ll have to kind of try that the next, you know, the next several weeks I am at work.
SPEAKER 02 :
All right, brother.
SPEAKER 11 :
Thank you so much. Merry Christmas.
SPEAKER 02 :
Appreciate your call. God bless. All right. We’re going to talk next to Henry from Gardena, California, or Gardena. Hi, Henry. Welcome.
SPEAKER 07 :
Hey, how are you doing, Steve?
SPEAKER 08 :
Good.
SPEAKER 07 :
In reference to Matthew 28, 19, the Great Commission, when Jesus was talking to the 11, I’m a little confused whether or not he’s literally talking about water baptizing them or baptizing them spiritually by sharing about him. And then when you go to verse 20, it says teaching. And I’m thinking, if you got a new convert, you really wouldn’t be prepared for teaching. In other words, I guess my question is, is that a blanket teaching? command for all Christians. And I think I get a little confused because when you look at 1 Corinthians and the Lord talks about somebody plants a seed, somebody water, but God gives the increase. And then you can go and I think it’s in Corinthians 2 where he’s talking about the body parts. If the body part was one part, it would be kind of freakish. And I think what really capsizes whether or not I believe it’s a blanket statement for everybody. Because in 1 Peter 3.15, it says be ready to give an account for why you believe in Christ. Because I listen and I see pastors give the commission out, and I think sometimes it might make people feel guilty because they know they can’t do that.
SPEAKER 02 :
Okay.
SPEAKER 07 :
How do you think about that?
SPEAKER 02 :
Well, as far as baptizing… That’s one of your questions. I believe he is talking about water baptism. True, the Bible in some places does speak about other kinds of baptism, like baptism with fire, baptism with the Holy Spirit, baptism with suffering. But in the Great Commission, he’s telling them to go out and make disciples, baptizing them. And we see in the book of Acts, that’s exactly what they did. As soon as someone was converted, they baptized them in water. And we’re told specifically it was water in a number of places. In Acts chapter 8, after the gospel was preached to the Ethiopian eunuch by Philip, he said, well, here’s some water. What prevents me from being baptized? So obviously they were thinking of water baptism when they talked about baptism. Also, of course, when the house of Cornelius began to, speak in tongues and prophesy when they’ve been preached to, but they haven’t been baptized yet. Peter said, well, who can deny water that these should not be baptized, who have received the Holy Spirit as we have? So, in other words, who can deny them water baptism? And we find many times the word water isn’t included in the statement, but we find that these people… They believed and they were baptized. But it’s very clear that water baptism is the primary form that is addressed. Now, as far as teaching, you say a new convert wouldn’t be ready for teaching. Actually, I think they’d be very much in need of teaching. If a person who’s come out of the world comes to Christ, they’re going to have to start relearning things. You’ve got to be transformed by the renewing of your mind. You’ve got to get over the wrong ideas that ruined your life and start learning. adopting the new truth that’s going to transform your life into good. So I think everyone’s needing teaching. But your real question seems to be, is the Great Commission for every Christian to be involved in, or only for the apostles, or maybe a few who have that calling? And you did mention sometimes preachers will make you feel guilty sometimes. Which I think, I know the phenomenon because I grew up in the church too. And I remember thinking, well, when I read the Great Commission, they say I’m supposed to be out there witnessing to people. And I don’t witness to everybody. I mean, I did witness to people, but not everybody. And sometimes they’d say, you know, if you don’t witness to everybody and they die and go to hell, it’s, you know, their blood’s on your head and stuff. Manipulative stuff. And it’s guilt, guilt manipulation. But I think the Great Commission is for the church. Now, it was spoken to, as far as we know, the apostles, although there may have been other people present, too. But it was spoken to the leaders of the church personally. as representative of the church, in my opinion. And we can see that not only the apostles, but others besides them, like Stephen and Philip and others, evangelized and did that kind of thing. But you’re right. Paul said the body has different parts, and not everyone in the body is an evangelist. Some are evangelists, some are teachers, some are pastors, some are prophets. There’s different things. But collectively, the body of Christ, and I think the commission is for the body of Christ, collectively the body of Christ is given the commission to make disciples of all the nations and to teach them to observe everything Jesus said. Now, as a part of the body of Christ, you might be an evangelist, in which case you’ll be out telling people the gospel. But once they come to Christ, it may be that you’ll turn them over to those who are pastors and teachers who will help instruct them and so forth. That way, different members of the church are doing different parts of the job. But The church is making the disciples this way and baptize them and so forth. So I think that the Great Commission is for the church. Not every member of the church does exactly the same thing. Certainly not every member of the church is an evangelist. Paul said he gave some evangelists, not all. He said some are evangelists. And certainly not everyone can be trusted to preach evangelism. partly because they’re not good at it, and secondly, because some of them don’t know the gospel well enough to be trusted to communicate it with unbelievers. So I think people need to be sure they understand what the message is before they become a messenger. So the Great Commission, I don’t think, is for every individual to do everything in it. For example, it says go and make disciples of all nations. If I, as an individual, say, okay, I have to go and make disciples of all nations today, I’m going to need a lot of plane tickets because there’s about 240-something nations out there, I think. And if you’re supposed to do it, too, we’re all going to be running all over the place. But, no, it’s the task of the corporate body to make sure that the nations are being discipled. There are missionaries who do part of that. There are church planters. There are pastors. There are teachers. There are different people who do different parts. Not everyone is supposed to be out there necessarily preaching on street corners, if that’s what you’re concerned about. Because I do know some preachers that might get the impression that that is everyone’s duty. All right, let’s talk to Jonathan from San Antonio, Texas. Jonathan, welcome.
SPEAKER 09 :
Hi, Steve. Two quick questions. First question is, what is the difference between… the Catholic Bible and, like, a Christian Bible, or if you could explain, like, the difference between, like, that and also, like, the Christian and the Catholic religion. And then my wife had a question, too, and her question is, when someone dies, what does the Bible teach us happens to them if they don’t believe in God?
SPEAKER 02 :
Okay. Well, as to your wife’s question, the Bible doesn’t say very much about what happens to an unbeliever right after they die. Something happens. Some people think they go into essentially oblivion until the end of the world. Others think that they are conscious in the torments of Hades until the end of the world. But at the end of the world, Jesus comes back and erases everyone from the dead. And whatever it may be that has happened to an unbeliever right after they die, it’s not their eternal condition, but at the second coming of Christ, all will be raised and all will stand before the judgment. And the Bible says everyone will be judged according to their works, and they’ll be consigned either to eternal life or to the lake of fire. At least that’s the imagery that the Bible gives. But as far as between the time they die, which for some people that’s today or yesterday, or lots of people have died, between the time they die and the time that the resurrection takes place when Jesus comes back, There are different opinions, even among Christians, as to what happens to the unbeliever in that intermediate state. And that’s because the Bible is not unambiguous about it. There seemed to be very little said about that in the Bible. Now, as far as the Catholic religion and the Catholic Bible go, The Catholic Bible is about the same as the Protestant Bible, except it has a few more books, I think seven more books in the Old Testament, which are called the Apocrypha. These are books which were written by Jews in the period between the two Testaments, and the Jews did not accept them as part of their Bible, but they belonged to the Old Testament period. They were written before Jesus came. The New Testament begins with Jesus. So all of these books, the apocryphal books, are Old Testament era books. But the Jews did not accept them as part of their Old Testament. And they did like them. And so did many early Christians like them. These books were read by Christians and Jews for profit, just like There’s many books I read for spiritual profit that aren’t in the Bible. But those books never were considered to be part of the Bible by the Jews, and therefore we don’t find Jesus or the apostles ever treating them as if they belong to the Bible. And that’s why Protestants don’t. The Catholics do, partly because church fathers… did quote from these books sometimes, some of the books. But so what? I mean, they also quoted from Greek philosophers and others. I mean, Paul quoted from Greek philosophers when he was teaching. He didn’t indicate that those Greek philosophers belong in the Bible. There’s a difference between a book you might read and find something you agree with in it, on the one hand, and a book that’s inspired by the Holy Spirit and belongs to that that limited collection of books that are written by prophets and apostles, which belong in the Bible. So the Protestant Bible does not acknowledge these uninspired books as belonging to the Bible. The Catholic Bible does have them in there. But they themselves, even the Catholics, admit that those books are not really on the same level as the other books of the Bible because they know they were not written by inspired writers. Now, as far as the difference between Catholic religion and Protestant, there’s a lot, a lot of differences. I mean, the main difference, I suppose, is whether the church leaders have the same authority the scripture has to dictate what’s normal. Protestants believe that the scriptures hold an authority that’s unique because they are the word of God, and that no matter how elevated in office they a Christian leader may be, he’s not on the same level with the Word of God. He’s still a man. And for that reason, the traditions of the churches that were brought about from men and not found in the Bible are not accepted by Protestants as being authoritative, whereas the Catholic Church does. The Catholic Church believes that the councils, the get-together of the church, and what they decide, that that’s as important as the Bible itself. So that would be the main difference. There’s a lot of different ideas that spring from that foundation, different ideas about Mary, different ideas about sacraments, different ideas about purgatory, lots of different things, because the Catholics follow not only the Bible but these many traditions of the church councils as if they are the Bibles. Protestants don’t accept most of those things because they’re not in the Bible, and so that’s the primary difference, I’d say, between the Catholic and the Protestant religions. There’s many other smaller details that we could go into, but I certainly don’t have time for that. I hope that’s helpful. Kitty from Snohomish, Washington is next. Welcome, Kitty.
SPEAKER 04 :
Hi, Steve. Thank you for taking my call, and Merry Christmas to you.
SPEAKER 02 :
Thank you. Same.
SPEAKER 04 :
I do have a question, but I wanted to preface it with this. comment I have been spending a fair amount of time on your website the narrow path and I just want to say it’s absolutely amazing there is so much information on there so many lectures I want to encourage everyone that’s listening to get in there and check it out because it’s just really a blessing and just filled with so much a wealth of information so that being said my question is this Concerning Adam and Eve, when they were in the garden and God had caught them and had made the decision of the fact that they had to be kicked out of the garden, my question is, if at that point, if they had repented, if they had asked God the Father to forgive them Do you have a perspective on that? I know it would be speculation because it didn’t happen, but I’m just wondering if the possibility was there for them to ask for forgiveness.
SPEAKER 02 :
Well, I certainly think that possibly was there, and I’m not even sure it didn’t happen because Adam and Eve lived another 930 years longer after we lose the record of their behavior. In other words, we only read about what happened in the early days of their lives. And then we read that they lived another 930 years, which who knows what they did during that time. They very well might have repented. Now, anyone who repents and turns to God after they’ve sinned can be on good terms with him. But being on good terms with him doesn’t mean it undoes the damage you did. For example, if you go out and do stupid things and you end up pregnant from someone who’s not your husband… well, you can repent of that and God will forgive you and you’ll be on good terms with God the rest of your life if you walk with him. But there’s still a baby there. In other words, there’s consequences for wrong behavior that complicate situations that do not become uncomplicated when you get saved. Getting saved simply means that you get right with God. And it’s always important to be right with God. So anyone who has sinned should repent. But it shouldn’t be thought that if you repent, that all the damage you’ve done by your sin is suddenly going to disappear like it never happened. So, I mean, I think that the banishment from the Garden of Eden, the breaking of the command to eat, not to eat of that tree, I think there were consequences for that that have remained and would have remained regardless of of whether Adam and Eve repented. I’d like to think they did. I’d like to think they did eventually repent. And we don’t know if they did or not, but they could have. But again, the damage was done from what they had done, and that’s the problem. Hey, I’m sorry to cut it short like this. I wish I didn’t have to, but I’ve got to end. We’re done. We don’t have enough time. You’ve been listening to The Narrow Path. We are listener-supported. If you’d like to write to us, the address is thenarrowpath, P.O. Box 1730, Temecula, California, 92593. And our website is thenarrowpath.com. Have a good Christmas Day, and we’ll talk again soon.
